[00:00:00] Crystal: I am Crystal DiMiceli, and welcome to the Forces for Nature Show.

[00:00:08] Crystal: Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hero these days? Do you feel like you as just one person, can’t really make a difference? Forces for nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview somebody who’s doing great things for animals and the environment. We talk about the challenge they’re addressing.

[00:00:26] Crystal: The solution they have found will keeps them going and will leave you with practical action tips so that you too can become a force for nature. The impacts of fashion, fast fashion in particular have only started coming to my attention in the last few years, or. And what a disappointing blow that was. I used to love seeing how much I could buy for how little, or being able to keep up with certain trends as they came.

[00:00:54] Crystal: And quickly left, but when I learned about the statistic that fashion is more polluting than flying and shipping combined, I needed to dig deeper and down a rabbit hole. I went. There are so many different facets into the impact of fashion without any clear indication as to which choices are the most eco.

[00:01:16] Crystal: So I chose to break it down and look at one element for this episode, the creation of the raw materials. Today’s guests are Anna Boxed and Michelle Rutigliano. They’re the founders of the clothing brand we are for, which uses dead stock. A k a leftover materials to create their high-end essential wardrobe pieces.

[00:01:39] Crystal: They’ve taken the fashion design process and flipped it on its head and have proven to the world that limits and restrictions could actually inspire rather than hinder creativity and creation.

[00:01:57] Crystal: Hi, Anna. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me on Forces for Nature. It’s so great to have you. Thank

[00:02:03] Anna: you. Thank you. So,

[00:02:05] Crystal: in the introduction, I mentioned that today we’re gonna be focusing on dead stock and how your company is mitigating its environmental impacts through its use. Can you first tell us what is dead stock?

[00:02:19] Anna: Sure. The name implies what it is. It’s it’s stock in this case, raw materials. Not moving. There’s textiles and, and leathers that are, are left unused. Mm-hmm. and generally have been commissioned by a brand or was produced based on the factories and, and the mills and the Tanners expecting orders that either didn’t come or they’re not as large as they expected.

[00:02:47] Anna: So it’s leftover materials.

[00:02:50] Crystal: Why is so much extra material created?

[00:02:55] Anna: Yeah. You know, it’s a, it’s a very good question, and it’s not something that I think is discussed in a very broad way. In manufacturing, there’s a terminology that sometimes one might hear, which is called M O Q, which speaks about minimum order quantity and the equipment, the machinery is set up, and pro manufacturing processes are set up so that it only makes sense to produce something at a certain amount of quantity.

[00:03:28] Anna: So for instance, largely for textiles, there would be anywhere from, at a minimum, 100 square meters that are run at a time. It could be even up to 300 square meters in tanning. It could be 300 square feet. It depends on the equipment. So there’s these minimum order quantities that are out there. So when you commission a color or a textile, no matter what you’re producing that.

[00:03:54] Anna: and

[00:03:54] Crystal: whether you need it or not.

[00:03:55] Anna: Well, yeah, whether you need it or not. I think at the time, and Michelle can certainly chip in when designers or brands commission a color or textile, we call that development. So we think we might need it. . So there are good intentions, but the reality is, is we develop more than ultimately what goes into production, and that’s just a natural byproduct of the decision making that goes on, the creative decision making that goes on in in fashion houses.

[00:04:28] Crystal: So you have all of this extra, why should we be concerned? Like what are the environmental impacts of having extra material? Why is this a big deal? Yeah.

[00:04:38] Anna: Well, it’s huge. It’s, you know, the UN has reported that up to 70% of the G H G emissions, when one goes to produce new products, comes from producing the raw materials themselves.

[00:04:53] Anna: So the way that we talk about it internally is we say, well, the damage has been done, the materials have been produced, the impact to the environment, whether. You know, carbon emissions or water usage, it’s already taken place. It’s a way of recirculating something that’s already been produced. So it’s very much a reuse model, and that is obviously one of the most sustainable things we can do is to reuse things that have already been produced.

[00:05:25] Michele: It’s sustainable, but it’s also, I. So we are for immediate sustainable impact, and it’s what we could do right now, you know, because the, like Anna said, the damage has already been done

[00:05:37] Crystal: after this material is created. And then if it’s not purchased, is it stored, is it thrown away? Like what ends up with that material?

[00:05:46] Crystal: Yeah. A company like you guys doesn’t come in and, and take care of it.

[00:05:50] Anna: Yeah. So to your point, that’s what happens. Initially, it’s. Usually in climate controlled, humidity controlled environments, it actually takes energy while it’s sitting there and lying dormant until when somebody does something with it and or it goes into landfills.

[00:06:09] Anna: So I think right now one of the most popular, unfortunately, dumping grounds is Africa. So there’s a lot of textile waste that goes there.

[00:06:18] Crystal: You guys are working with some really high quality

[00:06:21] Anna: materials, right? Yeah. We’re fortunate right now. The access that we’re focused on is from really top suppliers that supply high quality brands, but quality, you know, really matters a lot because if we think about.

[00:06:38] Anna: How to consume responsibly. One, we ideally buy less . Two is we buy better, which means it’s products that can last so that we ultimately can wear them longer. And when we’re done with what we love, we can give somebody else a chance to love it by, by putting it back and, and recirculating. .

[00:07:00] Crystal: That brings us to the next question I have is that the two of you come from the traditional fashion world.

[00:07:07] Crystal: What inspired you to take the traditional design process and flip it on its head?

[00:07:13] Anna: Well, we,

[00:07:14] Michele: yes, we do both come from the, the traditional world. I started my career at Barneys, New York when I was, uh, 19 in college. And then went on to Ermez. So that’s where I learned like, you know, beautiful luxury, perfection, status, all of that.

[00:07:33] Michele: And then I moved on to Prada, and this is where I learned how to curate. . And then from there I spent four years working as a merchant for Mark Jacobs and I was fortunate enough to work with him and the amazing design team there. And that’s where, you know, I saw in a sense the design process firsthand.

[00:08:01] Michele: It was really understanding how they work and how they think. And you know, in. To have him do what he does. And we don’t want people like, you know, the MUEs and the, the marks to not work in their way because that’s how we get this, this creative talent, this create these, I mean really it’s, it’s works of art, right?

[00:08:23] Michele: That’s why we were like, okay, let’s have them do what they do. And you know, I’m a merchant. By trade. And that’s why I was like, I think we could, you know, we could help. But Anna actually came up with the idea, she’s the brains behind this because she’s been in the supply chain for a really long time. And she called me up one day and she’s like, I have a, you know, I have an idea.

[00:08:45] Michele: And I was like, well, that’s a genius idea. And because of her background, which I will let her explain, that’s why we are able to do it. It’s because of her idea and actually her relationships. You can’t do this without the relationships that she has with the suppliers and the factories and all of that.

[00:09:03] Michele: So I’ll let her take it away to talk about her background.

[00:09:07] Anna: Thanks, Michelle. Yeah, it’s, it’s really our experience and our body of knowledge that inspired us to start. We are four. I have 35 years of experience in the fashion industry. I’m a bit of an anomaly. I’m an engineer. That means that I naturally gravitated to going deep into the supply chain and thinking about how we could do things.

[00:09:34] Anna: And I think with Covid, I, we, we all are starting to realize that global warming is real. It’s happening, it’s touching everyone. Now, you know, when we hear about forest fires or flooding or extreme weather, I think we’re all recognizing that a lot of this is due to global warming. And, uh, you know, at the time, when I was producing a lot of product, you know, I, I built the Michael Core’s accessories and footwear business.

[00:10:04] Anna: I, I hate to think about where that all is now. Hopefully there’s a good chance it’s in some of the listeners’ closets and, and, and not in a landfill. But, you know, I think we just realize. That there was a lot of excess in the supply chain due to say, creative decision making or an anticipation of orders that don’t happen.

[00:10:25] Anna: I mean, all for real reasons. It’s not intentional, but it’s there and it continues to be there. And as a result of being deep in the supply chain, and when I say deep, I mean visiting factories around the world, seeing this firsthand. As Michelle said, I just, I woke up and I said, well, if not us, then who?

[00:10:46] Anna: Who can create a business model that’s built not as a one-off and not as a capsule, but build a business that every decision we make is made through the lens of sustainability. And it started with us starting with debt, stock materials that already exist because as Michelle emphasized, its immediate.

[00:11:08] Anna: you know, the damage to the environment has already been done, and the idea here is to create beautiful product so that people can consume for themselves the way they would like and, but they’re also consuming in a way that’s better for the planet.

[00:11:25] Crystal: Now on your website, you say that you are engineering a new fashion system.

[00:11:31] Crystal: What is the traditional process? and then how have you changed it? How is it different now?

[00:11:38] Anna: So

[00:11:38] Michele: the traditional, the traditional process is every designer starts with a concept and a merch plan. And then from the concept, the design team goes out to their production and raw materials department, and then they create fabrics that tie back or leathers that tie back to the concept We.

[00:12:02] Michele: with the reverse. So we start with the concept and we start with the merch plan, but then we go through piles and piles of existing fabric that are already produced in the supply chain, intended for something that we don’t know. And then what happens is, is we curate around that. So everything become is actually a gigantic puzzle.

[00:12:26] Michele: So you have the sketches on a board. and you actually have to do some math. So you have to figure out the consumption. The consumption is how many meters or yards it takes to produce this garment. because there’s only a limited amount of each material that’s available. So some get discarded in the process because there’s not enough material to make a garment.

[00:12:51] Michele: Or I’ll put the material somewhere else where there’s less consumption and you start kind of reverse engineering the process.

[00:12:59] Anna: and Michelle, one thing you might wanna say, that’s really the, the punchline on, on that it’s reversed. There’s limits. You can only produce so much of this and that, because once we use the excess, it’s done.

[00:13:10] Anna: And if you go on our website, you’ll see how many units we’re able to produce. You know, we have this saying here, it’s in, it’s out, it’s gone. and so then it’s out. It’s done. It’s done. , yeah. It’s, it’s authentically limited edition . But, but the, the reverse part is, you know, normally you, you buy the line and you have no restraints.

[00:13:33] Anna: In this case, she’s buying the line as she’s curating the collection and she has restraints. And that’s why the math is so essential. And

[00:13:44] Michele: when Anna and I set out to to do this business, this is an industry that we love that was very good to us. And we don’t wanna take the creative geniuses. They’re out of what, you know, they’re not, this is how their process, this is how they work and we love and appreciate them for, for it.

[00:14:05] Michele: But what we can do is we can take the excess. and do something completely different with it. Do you

[00:14:12] Crystal: think designers nowadays are starting to recognize that they might need to change the way they do things a little bit?

[00:14:20] Michele: Absolutely. I mean, Mark Jacobson, you know, other designers, they’re very open to that.

[00:14:26] Michele: You know, they don’t wanna overproduce and they don’t wanna overdevelop, but sometimes it’s just a. Of their process, you know, and you don’t wanna stifle that in the beginning because then it kinda, when you give too many restraints, it becomes something maybe that they weren’t intending. But yes, I think, I think there has been significant changes from, from what I saw, Anna, I would say.

[00:14:51] Michele: Right. With

[00:14:53] Anna: your experience too. No, I, yeah, I, I think in general, people wanna do the right thing. , right? They wanna do their part. I think that’s true for consumers. I think that’s true for those of us that are responsible for helping to create consumer goods. And the designers themselves, as I mentioned, you know, there’s this creative process, of course Michelle spoke about, but there is the reality of the equipment in the.

[00:15:20] Anna: and the minimums that are needed in order to even produce that initial trial run. It’s just the size of the equipment and, and how the looms are set up or the tanning drums are made and there’s efficiencies with that. So there’s, you know, it excess is an inevitable byproduct, but we do believe that by doing this business, it does create more awareness.

[00:15:47] Anna: that let’s, let’s make good decisions. And oh, by the way, to the degree there’s excess, we can do something about it. Mm-hmm. .

[00:15:55] Crystal: So how mu how much material is out there? Hmm. Like, I mean, can you only make a handful of each product or,

[00:16:03] Anna: yeah, I think it’s a, you know, look, one could say there’s so much excess. If we, if we really thought about it, I think we could get discouraged and say, well, are we really making a.

[00:16:15] Anna: That’s so much access. There is, on the other hand, it’s kind of like saying, I’m only one vote. Why vote in the elections? Right? At some point we have to say, no, we, we can’t make a difference in the biggest and smallest of ways and we’re trying to do our part and, and it does bring to light the opportunity.

[00:16:35] Anna: To use these gorgeous materials and leathers and hopefully there will be other people that come up with their own way of doing that, their own business model. And as Michelle said, we’re very happy at some point we, what we’ve learned and how we’ve gone about this, we, we’d love to be able to either use specific brands access and help them with that so that we can scale.

[00:17:00] Anna: Our

[00:17:00] Crystal: impact. Yeah. I think that’s what’s so powerful about what you guys are doing is that you’re showing that this can be done. This wasn’t a concept before necessarily, and now like you’re showing that it can be done, it can be done. I in a very high quality manner and hopefully inspires many others to, to look at your processes.

[00:17:24] Crystal: Take it for their own. Well not steal the idea. Yes. I don’t know how I’m trying to say it, but you know what I mean. ? No, that

[00:17:30] Anna: what? That would be terrific. You know, someone once said to me, well, what happens if there’s no more excess? I said, well, that’s great. You know, you’re honest. Us outta business. Put us outta business.

[00:17:41] Anna: Put us

[00:17:42] Michele: outta business. Yep. That was the, actually the last page of our brand book put us out of business. I was like, Hmm, ,

[00:17:48] Anna: that can be . That scary. Well, we can switch, we can switch to using highly sustainable materials. Mm-hmm. , because there, there, you know, there is. That movement as well. Yes,

[00:18:00] Crystal: that is true. So there’s a, there is a slow fashion campaign encouraging people to only buy products that they know that they can wear a minimum of 30 times.

[00:18:10] Crystal: How are you ensuring that your products can stand the test of time?

[00:18:14] Anna: Wow. Well, we’re building a high quality product, right? So it starts with the raw material. . I think that’s one of the challenges of fast fashion. The raw materials themselves are not high quality and the make isn’t as high quality because it wasn’t intended for the kind of use that you’re talking about.

[00:18:32] Anna: You know, we’re building products that are built to last, and I think we all instinctively know when we buy luxury products, they do last longer, and that’s why. In the, I’m gonna call it those marketplaces that where we can recycle or recirculate what we own, like the real, real and some other great companies like that.

[00:18:57] Anna: It’s it’s luxury products, it’s premium and luxury products that are featured because the products do last and they have what I call a book value. People are still willing to pay for them because they know that you can still get more. So I also wanna Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna give, I was gonna talk about how you were des your design philosophy, Michelle.

[00:19:22] Anna: Well,

[00:19:22] Michele: yes, I, that’s what I was gonna bring up. We’re, we’re designing of essentials that can fit into your closet. So they’re beautifully made, thoughtfully made. Yet fashionable garments that could fit into any wardrobe. You know, the perfect boyfriend blazer, but we even make things that have a little unexpected twist.

[00:19:47] Michele: So, so it’s really about, Things that could just fit into the wardrobe that you already have. And

[00:19:54] Anna: you know, I think if you, you know, hopefully some people go on the website, they are essential items, so to your point, you know, and, and they’re highly perfected. So it’s not about buying a lot, it’s about buying the right piece that you can see yourself, as Michelle mentioned, wearing over and over.

[00:20:12] Anna: and in different ways.

[00:20:14] Crystal: That is true. Now what can the listener do to help reduce their fashion footprint?

[00:20:20] Anna: I guess buy less. Buy better meaning, you know, choose products that, that they have to love, otherwise they won’t wear it. Right. But you know, products that you love that actually have less environmental impact and where longer you, you talked about.

[00:20:36] Anna: So fashion, I think. That’s true. So, so buy from people that, you know, produce products in a responsible way because we do have to change the way we consume. And that’s, that’s as much a part of the equation as it is to, to buy from brands that are producing responsibly. .

[00:20:55] Crystal: Yeah. And brands such as your own are really doing great work in making products that are more sustainable.

[00:21:02] Crystal: So I will include the link to your website in the show notes so that people can find you guys. And, and thank you Anna Michelle, for joining me today. Thank you for what you’re doing. You’re making a difference.

[00:21:15] Anna: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and you know, thank you for your interest in, in what we’re doing.

[00:21:26] Crystal: There’s been a lot of movement lately pushing the fashion industry degree in their practices. There are even some laws on the horizon that would force their. We are four, however, is on the front lines, making sustainable changes before it’s even necessary. I respect what Annana Michelle said in that the creative genius behind so many brands thrives in the freedom to dream up the world and make it happen.

[00:21:52] Crystal: Unfortunately, though, the environment is taking a beating for it. , in my opinion, it’s so much more impressive to see what we are for is capable of creating despite the limits that they work within the boundaries, become an asset and provide for an even cooler story. Even if you can’t run out and spend a pretty penny on high-end items, there’s still ways that you can reduce your impact in your fashion choices.

[00:22:17] Crystal: Check out the show notes for some.

[00:22:24] Crystal: Don’t forget to go to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at becoming Forces for Nature, and let me know what actions you have been taking.

[00:22:45] Crystal: Adopting just one habit can be a game changer because imagine if a million people also adopted that. What difference for the world are you going to make today?