[00:00:00] Crystal: I’m Crystal DiMiceli, and welcome to the Forces for Nature show.

Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you, as just one person, can’t really make a difference? Forces for Nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview somebody who is doing great things for animals and the environment. We talk [00:00:25] about the challenge they’re addressing, the solution they have found, what keeps them going, and we’ll leave you with practical action tips so that you too can become a force for nature.

Today’s guest is Bonnie Monteleone. The founder and director of science for the Plastic Ocean Project. Bonnie’s research all over the world has shown her the enormity of the plastics problem and the complexities in [00:00:50] which it affects all life, not just the marine creatures that live among it.

Specifically, we talk about the critically endangered North Atlantic right whales. Bonnie has been creating a documentary about their plight called If the Oceans Could Talk. And If they could, they would have a lot to say.[00:01:15]

Hi, Vani. Thank you so much for joining me on Forces for Nature. It’s so great to have you.

[00:01:20] Bonnie: Thank you, Crystal. I’m real excited to share today with what we’ve been working on. So I can’t wait to get started.

[00:01:26] Crystal: I can’t wait to learn more. Going off of the name of the documentary that you’re working on, if the ocean could talk, what would it say?

[00:01:36] Bonnie: Yeah, that’s what we’re trying to figure out. And in fact, the reality [00:01:40] is it is talking. There’s all kinds of voices underneath the surface, but very few of us get to go below the surface to actually hear them. And so our goal is to amplify those voices below the surface that are currently not being heard.

[00:01:56] Crystal: This full length documentary is based on a short film that you created called 356. Who or what was [00:02:05] 356?

[00:02:06] Bonnie: It’s a bit of a tragic story. We had been offshore getting B roll for the full length documentary when we come across a dead newborn North Atlantic right whale. Oh. which is one of the most endangered whales in the world.

And in fact, this newborn was the very first calf of the season in 2020. Doing some research on this calf that was born [00:02:30] and unfortunately perished, there was no real evidence as to why. We decided that we would make this calf the main character of our documentary. And That calf was number 356 of that species that was still in existence at the time.

So we lost number 356. We are now below [00:02:55] 340 since we captured the story of that newborn. So their numbers are going in the wrong direction, and that’s why this documentary is so vital to educate people that we will lose these whales in our lifetime if we do nothing. But also, what are those challenges that we’re posing on these creatures?

And then who are the solutionaries, who are the people that are really trying to solve [00:03:20] it so that we can also give them a voice so we can all do better. And so

[00:03:26] Crystal: you now have the whale as your central figure in, in this upcoming film. What unique challenges are the right whales facing and how do they reflect broader issues in marine biodiversity?

Well,

[00:03:40] Bonnie: you know, they’re, they’re part of the Great Whales. And so they have these [00:03:45] extraordinary migration patterns all around the globe. And as we increase production of plastics and then transport them across oceans, they are now being affected by climate change. Ship strikes as well as plastic ingestion.

And then because we’ve now switched how we used to make nets and lines, [00:04:10] which used to be made out of hemp, something that would deteriorate in the ocean, they make these nets now out of plastic. And because the plastic is far more lightweight, it doesn’t absorb the water. They can make these nets much larger up to, like, 42 miles long.

So you can imagine the. The, the greater impact on these whales as they’re migrating to [00:04:35] these different regions, how they’re getting entangled, how they’re getting hit with ships, as well as ingesting the plastic that unfortunately ends up in our oceans, not just from beach goers and not just from stuff that falls off of boats, but every river leads to a river that leads to an ocean.

Right so even if you live on a mountain, if there’s plastic and getting into your river and your [00:05:00] community, it’s flowing down to the ocean. So the rivers are 1 of the greatest sources for plastics ending up in the ocean. And then from there, where can it go? You know, it’s literally at the bottom, right? So, or on the surface of the ocean.

So how does it ever come back to us? Well, in ways that it does is it can wash back up on beaches. Right? But [00:05:25] as it’s moving through the ocean, and these whales are moving through the ocean, they are coming in contact with each other.

[00:05:33] Crystal: And you are a specialist in this plastic pollution. How has this plastic pollution specifically impacted the right whale and other marine species?

Although I think you kind of just answered that.

[00:05:45] Bonnie: No, no. I think it’s good because I can dive deeper into that. That’s a perfect [00:05:50] question. Seemingly, an animal that’s 40 tons should be able to ingest plastic and have it go through their digestive tract and not be a problem, right? You would think, but unfortunately, because they can’t digest this plastic, it ends up creating these, uh, Balls of plastic and then they get stuck in the, in their digestive tract.

So there’s plenty of whales that [00:06:15] have been discovered, you know, dead on a beach. And when they do the necropsy, they will find that their digestive tract is just full of plastic. So passing it isn’t as easy as you would think for an animal that size. Other ways it’s causing problems. Is the chemicals that are associated with plastic can migrate from the plastic into tissue?

[00:06:40] So, whales are mostly made of fat, right, so plastics and these chemicals are lipophilic, meaning they’re attracted to each other. So, where there’s more fat, there’s more possibility for those chemicals to end up in their tissue. And a really recent study that just came out a few months ago, done at Duke University, they are now finding plastics in their blubber, so [00:07:05] in their tissue.

So, cannot be good, cannot be healthy. How are they ingesting the plastic? That’s such a great question. So there’s two types of whales. There’s the toothed whales. So they’re going to be going after squid and, you know, large fish and such. And then there’s baleen or filter feeding whales. So they’re just going to be eating the krill, the plankton.

So [00:07:30] these large animals, Speed on some of the smallest animals on the planet, which I find ironic. So the, the tooth whales are having a problem with more things that are in the water column, like plastic bags. For example, one of their prey is the squid and they don’t have bones. Plastic film. Doesn’t stay at the surface and doesn’t go to the bottom.

It actually hangs in the water [00:07:55] column. So if it looks like squid, they’re more likely to ingest the plastic. And that may be all at one time, but over time they’re eating these plastic film that they may perceive as squid. And so that’s how the larger toothed animals are coming in contact with plastics.

The baling whales are having an issue with the microplastics because the microplastics are [00:08:20] ingested by those small critters that they’re eating, whether it be the, the krill or the plankton, and then the, the plastics that they’re eating ends up inside the animals. So a study done at uc, Santa Cruz just reported that they estimate that the largest whale on the planet, which is your blue whale whale, which are baline whales.

Eat up to [00:08:45] 10 million plastic particles per day. So a little problem that’s gotten really big, especially for the largest animals on the planet. When the sad reality is we really need them. We can’t afford to lose the large whales and we can go into that.

[00:09:05] Crystal: And well, I want to make the important note that [00:09:10] even though they’re eating microplastic, which in theory can get through their system, like I want to emphasize what you said before in that.

These plastics contain additives that are toxic that can get into their systems and into their tissues. So even if they’re passing these plastics, it’s still having an effect. And it’s having an effect also on the fish that we’re eating, any of the fish that are [00:09:35] ingesting plastics or ingesting other animals that have eaten plastics.

It’s ending up on our plate, which is gross.

[00:09:43] Bonnie: Well, and, and, you know, to the point of it getting in their tissues, right. It could be. A serious problem, much like cancer, right? Because it could be, you know, this foreign agent that then has to be attacked, right? By, you [00:10:00] know, what is it called the white blood cells?

Yeah. Well, yeah, they have to be taxed. Right? So their immune system has to then work harder because it’s attacking these particles that don’t belong in their tissue. And so you could really compromise their health. In that respect,

[00:10:16] Crystal: so they’re being affected by plastics and you also mentioned ship strikes and entanglements.

How did those happen?

[00:10:23] Bonnie: Yeah. Especially for the North [00:10:25] Atlantic right? Well, they’re called urban whales because they do travel so close to shore. So when they’re migrating up north, now they move as far as Canada and they fatten up on the krill and, and then they migrate down to Florida to calve. So they’ll start calving, even in North Carolina.

Seems that that’s even shifting. So those animals are migrating in [00:10:50] these shipping lanes, but also where fishermen are casting nets, they’re setting up their pots, crab pots, or lobster pots, or even Black sea bass pots. These are hundreds of thousands of pots that are put out in the same region that these whales are migrating.

So they really have to run this gauntlet through all of this line [00:11:15] that’s hanging in the water column. And unfortunately, if they swim into them, oftentimes they’ll spin to try to get out of it. And then they actually wrap themselves up in it more. So this is a major problem, especially for North Atlantic right whales The number one reason that we’re losing them is because of entanglement.

Number two, ship strikes. And that’s not the same [00:11:40] for all of the great whales, sometimes ship strikes are more of a problem, but for the North Atlantic, it’s figuring out how can our fishermen fish without having a direct impact on this unfortunately dwindling population of whales.

[00:11:56] Crystal: Are they having problems with ghost nuts as well?

And are they finding entanglements with ghost nuts?

[00:12:01] Bonnie: Ghost nuts are another serious problem again, because [00:12:05] these, these nuts are so massive, right? So if a storm comes through and you can’t get your, you can’t get your net back in in time, lots of times they’ll cut it loose. And so unfortunately that still keeps fishing.

Even though we’ll never benefit from said fishing net. So we’ve got a lot of work to do and, and there’s technology out there that I [00:12:30] can’t wait to start talking about that are the solutions to some of these problems that we’re creating.

[00:12:36] Crystal: And these are just threats in the ocean. Can you tell us about the chemicals on land that affect them?

[00:12:43] Bonnie: So these chemicals that we’re putting on crops in order to stop insects from eating the crops and such, the pesticides, they will run off of [00:12:55] those crops. And because these compounds are synthetic, just like the plastic, there’s nothing on the planet that can really pull those compounds apart. Meanwhile, they cause all kinds of health problems.

Just like I was saying about the blubber, and the chemicals getting into the blubber, these chemical compounds that we [00:13:20] use daily that end up in our rivers, that end up in the ocean, are now ending up in mother’s milk. So the first calf born to a lot of these great whales, unfortunately the milk is contaminated with a lot of chemistry.

Some of them are losing their firstborn, and they believe it’s because of the chemistry that’s in the milk. Now, [00:13:45] after that, when she has her first calf, all those chemicals that have been building up in her body since she was born will be released in that first load of milk, so that the next load of milk should be cleaner.

But for the males, they don’t have a way to release those chemical compounds. And so they just continue to accumulate these [00:14:10] compounds their whole lives. And that’s tragic.

[00:14:15] Crystal: Yeah, that’s for sure. Now whales are important to us humans for reasons that may surprise some people. Can you tell us why they

[00:14:26] Bonnie: are so important?

Turns out that work that’s been done by Ralph Chamey, he was a former economist for the International Monetary [00:14:35] Fund, the IMF. So this man knows numbers, right? He knows how economies work. And when he was doing some visiting in the Baja, because his dream was to see a blue whale with his own eyes. And when he, when he had the gift of seeing one for the first time, he was with scientists.

And on that boat, the scientists were talking about. The whale [00:15:00] poop pump. And he was like, wait, what, what poop pump? What? And they were saying, yes, actually, whales are like farmers of the sea. And that’s because when they defecate, they provide important nutrients to the surface of the ocean because they’re poop floats.

And those nutrients actually feed the [00:15:25] phytoplankton, the phytoplankton. Is basically the forests of the ocean in that they do the greatest amount of carbon exchange. So they’re taking CO2 out of the air and they’re changing it into oxygen. And so that turns out they’re really important to us. In fact, we should thank the whales and the plankton [00:15:50] for every other breath we take.

That’s how important they are. Like we couldn’t have the oxygen in the air just based on plants. We also need the plants in the ocean. And so the whales are actually the ones that are helping propagate the phytoplankton. So you lose the whales, you lose the nutrients that they provide, and then you actually have a direct [00:16:15] impact on that carbon exchange that we’re right now fighting to keep.

[00:16:21] Crystal: I never would have thought that the whale poop actually is connected to the mitigation of climate change. That’s really interesting. And there are other ways that they’re helping,

[00:16:33] Bonnie: right? Absolutely. Their bodies are massive. We’re talking 40 metric tons of [00:16:40] animal. So their bodies are made of carbon. So, because of that, they’re taking up carbon, and then when they die, they sink to the bottom of the ocean.

So, they’re literally taking the carbon out of the air, putting it in their bodies, and then when they pass, they remove it so that it can’t escape back into the atmosphere. Unlike a tree. When a tree [00:17:05] dies, actually the carbon can be released back into the atmosphere. So in that sense, they’re better even than trees at this game.

And then the other thing is their bodies are so massive that they’re like giant spoons in the ocean. So they’re also bringing nutrients from the depth of the ocean up to the surface. And those nutrients are really important for all of the fishing industry. [00:17:30] So they benefit the fishing industry because they’re helping provide nutrients that start at the base of the food web, which is your phytoplankton, then your zooplankton, then your zooplankton is fed on a smaller fish, and then it goes on and on up the food web.

So they’re really important. For our economy, the fishing industry, these whales actually benefit the fishermen, [00:17:55] so it behooves them to figure out ways to protect them. And so this work that was done by Ralph Chammey when he started learning about all of these benefits to whales. But he started thinking, like, if this was the whale’s job, what would they get paid?

And he came up with a number based on all the scientific statistics that each great whale is worth at [00:18:20] least two million dollars. Two million dollars. Based on economy, based on whale watching, because that’s a two billion dollar business, right? And then the benefit they provide for the fishing industry and the carbon exchange.

Once you can give something a dollar value by it being alive, as opposed to killing it. To kill a whale, you can [00:18:45] sell it for about 42, 000. So you can see the difference. If we can create an economic paradigm shift, where we actually give a monetary value for the services that nature provides for us, We can then build an economy around that value, just like we did with gold.

What did gold do? It was just pretty and heavy. [00:19:10] But we figured out a way to build a gold standard around a thing. A thing. Well, now we’re saying, how about that thing be nature? provides these services that sustain

[00:19:26] Crystal: life on earth. That would be just such an amazing thing if we were able to figure out how to make wells and [00:19:35] biodiversity in general and trees as valuable as gold.

[00:19:39] Bonnie: We can. That’s the answer. I mean, we have an economist that understands how economies work. He’s building out the system so that we can do that. And that’s part of our documentary. Is like once we all understand how important they are to us, and then we can figure out a way to give them value to keep them [00:20:00] alive, then we can start working with industry who right now, you know, we have to be realistic.

We can’t get off of fossil fuels anytime soon. We’re working on it. We’re getting closer. And that’s where this carbon credit market came into effect to try to mitigate the folks that have to burn fossil fuels in order to create an economy. But it [00:20:25] was based on nothing. It was based on nothing. You could offset your carbon footprint by giving money to a company that was offsetting their carbon footprint.

There’s no gain in that. This has a gain. This is money that could actually go to fishermen. Let’s say, you know, that we know that the right whales are migrating from Canada to Florida, from November [00:20:50] to December. May, so why not hire them to keep an eye on them? Could we not use their eyes, since they’re on the water, to track where they are, so they alert each other where they are, so that we build a system that there’s a benefit for the fishermen or the people that are on the water to protect those animals so that they don’t get hit by ships, [00:21:15] so that we can reduce the impact of these fishermen that are casting their nets.

Those are just two of the things we can do just working with the fishing industry. And, but wait, there’s more. So as we figure out that we’re creating these problems for the animals, there are industries that are trying to solve some of these challenges. So one of [00:21:40] the newest industries that are coming online is ropeless gear, also known as on demand gear.

So we have already worked with a fisherman that’s using this technology. So instead of there being a trap, a buoy line, and a buoy that’s floating on the surface, That line is what the whales are swimming into and getting [00:22:05] entangled in. We now have the capability for these fishermen to drop their trap down into the ocean.

It has a tracking device on it and a release system so that when the fisherman is ready to call up his pots, he has the coordinates on his phone or even an iPad, imagine that out in the middle of the ocean, right? And they’re calling up [00:22:30] these pots. And they sit and wait for them to come to the surface, and then they can grab them.

And the beauty of it is they’re losing less of them because they can track where they are, even if they move, and they do, because the ocean is always moving. So their traps are always moving. They can locate them. And so there’s been a lot of resistance from the fishing community. [00:22:55] They don’t want to do this.

They’re afraid that it’s going to be mandated. And it’s really expensive. Absolutely more expensive than what they’re using now. But the fishermen that are testing it are, are saying we are losing far less pots because we can find them. If somebody accidentally drives over the buoy line, I’ve lost that trap forever and it continues to [00:23:20] fish.

So the fish are dying in these traps that are lost. He’s lost his trap. He’s lost his line and his buoy. So now he’s going to buy a whole new set of everything to replace that. And then another thing is. This fisherman told us that Unfortunately, people will pull his trap up, take out his fish, put something stupid inside it, and send it back down.

So now there’s pirates taking the [00:23:45] fish out of his trap because they know where it is. Why? Because there’s a buoy floating on the top of the ocean. Not only that, that line, that buoy ends up being marine debris, right? As well as the pot that’s down in the bottom of the ocean is now marine debris. So he’s saying, like, this is actually saving me money.

I don’t have to worry about anybody getting into my pods. I don’t have to worry about losing my [00:24:10] trap or people running over it. And he’s having a 99 percent success rate. This is using technology to solve a problem. So now there’s a lot of nonprofit organizations that are popping up that are helping raise money in order to give.

The money and this technology to fishermen to try as well as to, to transform the way they do things now to the new [00:24:35] way of fishing. So the fisherman gets what he needs. The whales get to swim freely through the ocean and it is a win. That is such good news. So that was just one of the ways that same technology can be used for nets as well.

So mandating that there is some tracking device on these nets so that if they do get lost, they’re trackable [00:25:00] and we can go retrieve them. Really simple solution. As we know now, we’ve got those little square tags that you can put on your luggage in case it gets Right? So like the technology is there. We just have to make it so that it can, you know, withstand the salt being in that particular environment.

But I don’t think we’re far from that technology working.

[00:25:22] Crystal: People are so resistant to change, but these [00:25:25] ideas that you’re talking about are really practical and they seem like the really innovative ways to move into the future. And I, I’m excited that they can be implemented.

[00:25:36] Bonnie: I think the smartest thing that these nonprofits are doing is Using it as an opportunity instead of the mandate, which is, oh, you know, no one likes to be told what to do.

I don’t like to be told. But if you can [00:25:50] get the fishermen to try it, just try it. And what’s happening is because you’ve got. Industry developing these systems. They’re not fishermen. So now the fishermen are providing feedback to the companies to say, if you do this, it’ll be better. If we do that, it’ll be better.

So now it’s a collaborative effort between the companies and the fishermen and in the [00:26:15] long run. who wins, but all of us. So imagine now the fishermen that are willing to do that if we build out some kind of certificate program. So the fish that you’re buying at the market, it says caught with ropeless gear.

You choose that fish over the one that wasn’t. And now you’re actually helping fund the work in order to move in the [00:26:40] direction that we need to go.

[00:26:41] Crystal: I love it. I mean, if you can get all stakeholders to buy into an idea, that’s a recipe for success. So I think you answered this question because I wanted to ask if there is hope, but that sounds pretty hopeful to me.

It is.

[00:26:58] Bonnie: And then as far as the ship strikes go, I work with another nonprofit organization. They work out of the [00:27:05] Baja. So Baja is another bio rich location. I think they have more than half of the cetaceans on the planet that are in this one particular region. And through this work that the Great Whale Conservancy has been doing.

They’ve been able to photo ID these whales and then through photo identification of other people around the globe, they’re able to figure out where [00:27:30] these whales are going, what are their travel patterns. And once we understand the travel patterns, we can then work with the shipping industry in order to say, look, this time of year, you’re going to see humpback whales in this region.

If you just move 10 miles north of this particular region, you’re less likely to hit a whale. So now they’re developing a mapping system, so [00:27:55] instead of, uh, a ship going its course and then shifting, you know, 50 miles out and then out and around, which would take a whole lot more fuel, they’re developing a mapping system for the shipping industry so that if they just make subtle changes through their travel across the ocean, they burn less fuel and they avoid those locations of where those whales will be certain times of the year.[00:28:20]

So again, using technology and using pooling of information, we can then learn the animals so that we can protect them through just the way we navigate around the ocean. That’s another great idea. That’s awesome. As my friend, Michael Fishbach says, no ship captain wants to hit a whale. They don’t want that to happen, but [00:28:45] there’s very few ways for them to avoid them because why?

Cause they don’t know where the whales are. If you don’t know where the whales are, it makes it even harder to figure out how to get around them. This knowledge that they have at their fingertips, overlapping the map of where the whales are with the maps that they’re already using, pretty simple solution.

[00:29:06] Crystal: Absolutely. You work with the [00:29:10] Plastic Ocean Project. What strategies does the Plastic Ocean Project employ to combat plastic pollution and its effects on marine life?

[00:29:20] Bonnie: I’d have to say, you know, we’re looking at it from all different aspects. So we go out into the ocean and we take young people and we have them fish for plastic just so they can see with their own eyes just how serious this [00:29:35] problem is.

We can’t clean up the entire ocean, but what we should be doing, focusing on 100%, is reducing our use of plastic. Because if we don’t use it, we can’t lose it, and it can’t end up where it doesn’t belong. So one of the key things that we’re doing is working with companies to reduce their use of plastics.

So we have our ocean [00:30:00] friendly establishments, not just restaurants, but all businesses can do better, right? I mean, even a massage therapist can do better, oddly enough. And we have one that used to give out a water bottle after each massage, and she now has a water dispenser and they can, you know, fill up a glass of water before they leave.

Just simple, simple solutions. And so [00:30:25] with this ocean friendly establishment that we started in 2016, we had just two restaurants that signed up that said we won’t give out straws. That’s where they started, right? Only on demand. So we’re not saying nobody can have a straw. We’re not going to say nobody doesn’t need a straw.

We’re just saying not everybody wants a straw. So if you ask for it, like you do your ketchup, You get your straw, [00:30:50] but to assume that everyone that sits at a table wants a straw is in the wrong direction as well. So it started with reducing the amount of straws that were given out. Well, it’s grown now. We have over 250 businesses.

That are now ocean friendly tackling at least one of the challenges of reducing waste, but they have up to 10 different ways that they can reduce [00:31:15] waste. And depending on the number of the 10 things that they do, they get stars now. So we had to start a star program because once. They got an idea like, wait, we got rid of the straws, what else can we do?

So then they switched from styrofoam to compostable packaging. And then from there, they said, well, geez, maybe we could compost. So then they started compost. I mean, it was just this incredible ripple effect, just out of the idea of [00:31:40] just not giving everyone a straw. So that is one of our biggest success programs, and it’s beloved.

I mean, the community loves it. They love being able to know where they can go, where there’s a business that’s trying to reduce waste, putting some effort towards it. And then the business wins because they’re being promoted as an ocean friendly establishment. I love hearing about community [00:32:05] efforts like that.

We do other fun things. We have our trash and fashion show. So this is done with high school students. They organize the entire event and we get people coming out and messaging about the fast fashion. Through making clothing out of either plastics or repurpose materials, and then we turn it into a full on fashion show [00:32:30] held at our local Arboretum.

If you can imagine how beautiful they’re outdoors amongst flowers and plants and birds, and we’ve got, you know, 100, 100 people are more coming up out to watch these young people design these outfits and then describe what they did, how they did it and why they did it. And that’s really catching on, in fact, there was a non profit down in Florida [00:32:55] that asked if they could send some of the outfits down so that they could put it on display, so that perhaps they would start a trash and fashion show down in Florida.

So the ripple effect is, is pretty profound. And then of course we have a full on research facility. So, education through research, we get people of all ages that want to know just how serious this problem is. In our lab, we [00:33:20] put cotton lab coats on them, we get them under microscopes, and then we have an instrument that can tell you if a particle is plastic or not, right?

So actually being able to run this instrument, I said, it’s kind of like a video game. You got to find the particle and then you hit it with UV light. Gives you an answer or what the possibility of what that particle is to be able to, you know, scoop [00:33:45] water out of the Cape Fear River and then to to be able to analyze that water and find microplastics now in fresh water is not only alarming, but it’s also motivating.

Tells people, we’ve got to do better. We have got to reduce the amount of plastic we’re using because that plastic isn’t going to go away unless we stop using it. And then we also work with [00:34:10] industry that are trying to solve the problem. How do we get rid of this plastic? We have a tabletop reactor, turning plastics into fuel to see if that’s a viable solution.

And then are we causing more harm than good by doing so? We were pretty impressed with the. Product we were able to acquire using plastics as fuel. Not sure that’s the exact answer, but we do have to figure out a way [00:34:35] to make it go away completely. Recycling is only downcycling and you don’t get rid of it.

So, yes, we should repurpose. Absolutely. We should recycle. But we really need to figure out a way to make it go away. And some people are like, why don’t we just launch it into space? And I say, why would we pollute space? Because we think that that’s a good answer for us. So, [00:35:00] no, we have to figure out a way to to get rid of this.

And unfortunately, there’s so many chemicals in these plastics that are not only hurting marine life. but also us. So when we eat and drink out of plastics, those chemicals are ending up in our blood and, and causing some health issues for sure. So that’s what we aspire to do through our research is like, [00:35:25] here, you see it with your own eyes, and then maybe you become an ambassador to getting people that you love to really slow down their use of eating and drinking out of plastic, because that’s really where we need to start.

[00:35:37] Crystal: So how did you get from studying plastics as a scientific researcher to making a documentary about right whales?

[00:35:46] Bonnie: Yeah. So, you know, science is rarely a straight line. You [00:35:50] start at one point and you find yourself in a, you know, uncharted waters if, if you will. I started my work as a graduate student at UNC Wilmington.

And my thesis question was, if plastic is accumulating in the North Pacific, is it accumulating in the North Atlantic, given that I live on the east coast? That question took me nearly 10, 000 nautical miles. So I did [00:36:15] sample in the North Pacific garbage patch. Flying to Hawaii, getting on a 50 foot catamaran and spending 30 days at sea, sailing across the North Pacific, collecting over 100 samples and realizing that not one of those surface samples came without plastics in them.

And then sampling in the North Atlantic, flying to Bermuda, [00:36:40] getting on a 172 foot research vessel, collecting surface samples. Not one of those samples came back without plastics in it. And then sailing from Rio de Janeiro to Cape Town, South Africa in the South Atlantic, another 30 days at sea. Not one of those samples, over 150 samples.

Came back without plastic in it. And then lastly, going to the South [00:37:05] Pacific, joining some former members of the BBC blue planet videographers, creating a documentary, a plastic ocean. I brought my surface sampler. We sampled in the South Pacific. And not one of those samples came back without plastic in it.

Furthermore, we dissected fish while we were shooting that footage and we were finding plastics [00:37:30] inside some of the juvenile fish.

[00:37:33] Crystal: That’s so disappointing to hear. I mean, not one sample from all around the world. So, was it being with the BBC that then led you to your own documentary, or how did you go from that to a documentary about right whales?

[00:37:51] Bonnie: So, that journey of going to the middle of [00:37:55] these ocean gyres then led me to learn about sargassum. Sargassum is in the North Atlantic, I didn’t see it in any other ocean that I had visited, and the sargassum. Is an essential fish habitat. This is where our juvenile sea turtles go and fish go to forage and for protection until they’re big enough now sargassum.

You may not know what that is, [00:38:20] but it’s a free floating algae. So algae often will grow from the bottom of the ocean to the surface. But this actually propagates on the surface, so it reproduces on the surface. So it is going to go wherever the wind and current drives it, just like the plastic. So what happens is the plastic ends up getting intermingled with this.

essential fish [00:38:45] habitat. So the documentary was to bring up that maybe the North Atlantic has a more serious plastic problem because this is where the juvenile fish and sea turtles are going so that they could be exposed to microplastics much sooner than other parts of the world. sargassum, I learned that it [00:39:10] accumulates just off of the outer banks.

Which is part of North Carolina and that there’s one of the most bio rich locations off our coast. And that means we have enormous number of whales, dolphins and porpoises, as well as pelagic fish like your sharks and manta rays and sea turtles. And so through that finding, [00:39:35] I reached out to Sylvia Earle’s foundation and she has this program called Hope Spots.

She’s building Hope Spots around the world. And that study in that particular region is what brought us there to get the B roll to get footage of whales. And that’s when we found the right whale, who becomes the main character of our film. So if we can solve the issues with the right whale, [00:40:00] we can solve many of the plastic problems.

So we’re going to talk about shipping, so getting people to buy local. Like, let’s not just ship everything around, buy things that are shipped all around the world. Reduce the amount of shipping that’s going on, you’re going to have a direct impact on the whale population. for your attention. Getting behind the ropeless gear, on demand gear, right?

This is another way we can get people to help support those [00:40:25] nonprofits that are working with the fishing industry, but also develop a program so that if they are using ropeless, lineless gear, those are the fishermen we’re going to want to buy our fish from. And then getting people to reduce how much chemistry they’re throwing on their lawns, because we now know that that ends up in the mother’s milk.

That could potentially be one of the reasons why this newborn died, is because the [00:40:50] mother’s milk was contaminated. So all of these things. Things are interwoven into a story that shares with people that they probably wouldn’t know what they’re putting on their lawns is ending up in mother’s milk to the amount of plastics that we’re using that are getting lost in the environment and ending up in these animals to the the ship strikes.

Right? So, you know, getting behind this [00:41:15] nonprofit that’s developing a plan to work with the shipping industry. So they use this model of. Avoiding where the whales are, and then everyone working towards a new economy based on this, what’s the value of a whale, this new plus nature economy where the economy is based.

On nature, not [00:41:40] on fiat money, which is what we basically have now. So this new economy will be the new gold and that gold is the ecosystem services that sustain life on earth. That was a lot. Sorry. I should’ve brought water.

[00:41:58] Crystal: Well, you, you basically answered the last question I wanted to ask, which was how can a listener help in [00:42:05] this cause, wherever they are.

[00:42:08] Bonnie: So how can people help is really, we need to finish this documentary. We’re still fundraising for it. We have a GoFundMe campaign right now. We also have fundraising opportunities through our website, plasticoceanproject. org backslash documentary. And so, to get people to help us finish this film, we [00:42:30] give credit to those that support the film.

We do have some financial backers right now, but if you put your money behind something, you’re going to make sure that it happens. So, this film. Desperately needs to get out by the end of the year, and we’re still in pre production. We still have some more shots that we need to acquire. But as far as the interviews go, we have most of the interviews in the [00:42:55] can and another thing that we’re doing different crystal.

Is we’re asking people for footage. So every time we go out on the ocean, we’re burning fossil fuels, right? We have unfortunately, we could actually hit a well with our prop that is happening. In fact, just a few weeks ago, and not a very large boat. hit a newborn right whale and gashed its [00:43:20] face and I believe it’s now perished.

So even our smaller boats can have a direct impact on these whales. But that wasn’t your boat that did it? No, that wasn’t our boat, but it wasn’t a very big boat that actually caused that damage and we should be fully aware of that. But so if we can get footage from people that have already captured beautiful footage of [00:43:45] North Atlantic right whales.

Then we will use their footage for our film so that we reduce our carbon footprint. We reduce the chance of causing harm while we’re out there. So it’s a win win in that

[00:43:57] Crystal: respect as well. That’s a great opportunity for the filmmakers and wannabe filmmakers who are listening. Bonnie, this has been really interesting and I think you put forth some really [00:44:10] exciting solutions and I hope that this all come to fruition.

Good luck with your documentary and good luck in all that you do. You’re making a difference.

[00:44:22] Bonnie: Thank you, Crystal. You know, it’s, it’s, you’re part of the solution, too, you know. One of the pillars I didn’t mention was the fact that we take the arts as equally as important as the science. It’s because [00:44:35] the science, the scientists usually keep the science in the science community.

It’s the artists that are creating art out of plastic, right? A picture’s worth a thousand words. It’s the videographers, it’s the storytellers like you that are getting it out to the general public. So that we all can do better. And that’s all we can ask, right? Let’s just all do better. And once we do better, [00:45:00] let’s do better again.

Thank you for all

[00:45:03] Crystal: that you do. You’re making a difference.

I remember seeing whales for the first time. Their size is almost hard to believe and you could only imagine how powerful they are. Yet, they’re so graceful and [00:45:25] gentle and vulnerable. If they could talk, what would they tell us about their daily struggles? About the gauntlet of fishing gear and plastic litter Bonnie said that they must migrate through.

We can get a pretty good idea of their experiences through Bonnie’s documentary. If you can support it, please do so. Either monetarily, or by spreading the word, or seeing it when it comes to a festival [00:45:50] near you. These creatures are so important to the world. Not only intrinsically, but also in the fight against climate change.

Don’t forget to go to forcesfornature. com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. [00:46:15] Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at Becoming Forces for Nature and let me know what actions you have been taking.

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