[00:00:00] Crystal: I am Crystal DiMiceli, and welcome to the Forces for Nature Show.

Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you as just one person can’t really make a difference? Forces for nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview somebody who’s doing great things for animals and the environment. We talk about the challenge.

They’re addressing the solution. They have found what keeps them going and will leave you with practical action tips so that YouTube can become a force for nature. Today’s episode is a special one for me. Three years ago this month, a month before the whole world shut down because of Covid 19, I launched forces for Nature.

It was this crazy idea that I had to stay connected to the conservation world after moving to Columbia for my husband’s job and not having work. And it was also my way of implementing what I was learning about behavior change in that people are more likely to respond to positive stories rather than doom and gloom, and it’s been so much fun, a lot more work than expected, but worth it.

That inaugural episode featured Paul Thompson, the co-founder of the organization, save Penland. If you don’t remember, pangolins are the most trafficked mammal in the world. And so when I was approached about doing an episode featuring some of Save Pangolin’s champions, it felt serendipitous. The Pangolin Champions Program was also launched in 2020 with Ames at supporting emerging leaders in the pangolin conservation landscape, and I had the honor to chat with four of them.

My first guest is Dr. Mark aal. He’s a veterinarian. Wildlife conservationist, an educator based in Lagos, Nigeria. He leads rescue, rehabilitation and release efforts for many of Nigeria’s most endangered species, such as the Pangolin, and is the director of St. Mark’s Animal Rescue Foundation, Nigeria’s first pet rescue and adoption shelter.

He had me hooked as soon as we got on the screen together, and you’re about to find out.

So you just brought on the video and I wish, I wish the listeners can see this, were you just brought onto the video a little Baby Pangolin. Tell me about this guy.

[00:02:32] Mark: So, uh, this is one of our latest rescues. The sad thing about the Bushman trade is the pangolins have vested, some of them might be. And they lose their babies.

Oftentimes, they give birth on the table. And because these bush meat eaters have no use for the babies, they just throw them away, you know? And then I go rescue them and then hand raise them. He’s been with us for about two months now. He’s on special formula. And we raised them for about a year plus and teach them to be pangolins again, and we release them into protected forests.

[00:03:12] Crystal: Ah, he’s so precious. Is that a, is that a male?

[00:03:16] Mark: Yes, it’s a boy. For some reasons. I don’t know. We get more male than females. .

[00:03:23] Crystal: Oh, interesting. So his, his mom was a victim of the bush meat trade.

[00:03:27] Mark: Exactly. And she died because they’re usually dehydrated, weak, unattended to, they usually die. The mother died a few hours after birth, you see?

Oh. And he was surely going to die maybe a few hours after that. But he was lucky that we were right there and we rescued him. And he has another lease on life.

[00:03:50] Crystal: Hmm. Now, is that for the bush meat trade, is it mainly for local consumption or is it sold for consumption elsewhere? Okay.

[00:04:01] Mark: Initially it was for local consumption.

People have developed a taste for the meat, and then they also use it for medicine. But with the increasing international trade in Pangolin, uh, flesh and. There is an increasing demand on the local bush meter, whatnot. So the local bush meter trade is increasingly beginning to fail. The international trade.

[00:04:29] Crystal: So let me, let me ask you a few questions about, you know, what you’re doing. What motivates you to do this pangolin work? Because it’s not easy.

[00:04:39] Mark: I am enthusiastic about saving wildlife in Nigeria. We have a very appalling attitude to animals in general. So wildlife in particular, and I want a change. So I work to be the change that I want to see and I venture to the bush midmarket, to the Bush trade, pet trade and all that.

Rescue what I can rescue. I work with the government. Try to make rescues, rehabilitate and release whatever I leave my hands on. And in the process of this work, I came across the Pangolin. Honestly. Honestly, and I’m a bit ashamed to admit this, I didn’t know what it was the first time because I know armadillos, I know.

Um, and it has, but I didn’t know what a Pangolin was, so I was intrigued. I checked up on them and I. That they were endangered and we had these animals right in our forest here in Nigeria, you know, so that picked my interest and I started rescuing these guys and more, and more and more I find myself drawn to them.

Initially when I started, it was about 20% Pangolin and. 80% other animals, but right now it’s about 70% pangolins and 30% other animals. So what motivates me more is my success stories. I tell you another thing that is a bit shame for me to, when I started this work, I started, of course, I didn’t know what animal it was, so I didn’t know anything about the animal, you know?

So I went in blindly and just felted by my passion to. And I’ve been learning on the job. I’ve been out of the country to learn, and I know more now, and the success I’ve been recording over the years is what has now kept me on focus. Look, it can be done the, we have increased awareness. We have more people coming up to want to save nature, you know, so success with the animal, success with my community, success with the government.

For the first time in Nigeria, we’re having seizures, we’re having government put, making proactive actions to save an lanes. So this success story tells me that it can be done. I can’t rest on my eyes, I can’t stop now. I must give it my all. And it’s what’s been driving me consistently.

[00:06:57] Crystal: Can you tell me one of your favorite success stories?

[00:07:01] Mark: Ah, thank you. Um, my first baby. That I raised, um, I named him Juba. Um, Juba was the name of the black, um, actor in Gladiator’s. Jsu, you know, you know that movie Gladiator where he had to fight for his life Yeah. And all that. Yes. So, um, Jai Monsu visited about the time we rescued Juba. And we named Baby Pangolin Juba.

We rescued him at about one week of age. I didn’t know anything about raising Orphan Pangolins when we rescued Juba. And, uh, I sent out an SOS and I had help from all over the world. Um, um, uh, from, uh, TKI High Highwood, um, uh, uh, they reached out Lisa. Reached out and from South Africa. They reached out.

They helped me. Lisa sent, um, the Pangolin Care kit all the way from her place in, uh, Zimbabwe to Nigeria. She sent it to me, and day by day we raised Juba together. Honestly, she was following up every day and we raised Juba for like nine. So imagine painstaking uh, activity every day, sending reports, weighing him and all that.

We had some near, um, episodes where we almost lost Juba. But the champ, the gladiator that he is, he pulled through, he fought gallantly, and at about nine to 10 months of age, it was time to release Juba. Whoa. It was a very emotional period for me because every day, for nine months, I didn’t travel. I was with Juba daily and everything.

I got to know his antiques, and they have this Catholic antiques. He had his favorite toys, he had his moments. He had. Everything like a pet and all that. But now it was time to let him go. We had taught him to survive on his own and all that, and it was time to let him go. Three times I took Juba to the forest.

Three times I brought him back. I looked for, I think it was me, it was in Juba. He was ready to go. Cause we had prepared him for the. But, um, I would release him and say, I think he looks a bit slow. He might not be feeling too well. Lemme take him back to the hospital to observe him. I took him back two weeks later, I took him to the forest.

I contrived an excuse to take him back three times. The third time I had stilled my nerves and this time around, and I put, I put him on a. And immediately he climbed that. He went outta reach and Yep. I cried a bit. . Oh, it was a bit emotional. I cried a bit, but I learned to let him go. So Juba was my first and he’s still the most precious

[00:10:00] Crystal: How long ago was that?

[00:10:02] Mark: That was 2019. We rescued in 2018. So 2019. Yes. We released. . But after then I have raised about nine orphans, nine 10 orphans and released, and it’s been easier each time, but it never released easy. That moment of release, it’s almost spiritual, uh, you know, you’re saying goodbye, but you know, you know, something hits you by the activities of humans like you.

This guy was snatched over his, um, his, um, his chances in the. When caught shot, his mother was snatched and he surely would’ve died. But by the activities of humans like you, like me, he is gotten another lease on life and he has another chance to be a Pangolin again. You know? So it’s always an emotional moment, but exhilarating too.

When you make the release, you feel like it is dego, you did something , other humans don’t do. So, yes, it’s beautiful.

[00:11:02] Crystal: That is beautiful. It’s very special. Yes. So tell me, what do you tell people? Like why should we celebrate and conserve Pangolins?

[00:11:10] Mark: The Pangolins, these darling creatures, they feed almost exclusively on aunt and termites.

And every year here in Lagos, Nigeria, I know how much farmers spend millions in dollars to control and, and termite destruction of their crops. of their timber, of their wood. Even myself, I spent good money to control termites destruction in my homes. But we have these animals provided by nature to protect us, to reduce the an and termite population so that our crops were tried.

But because we have killed these animals, these ans and termites have closed armed in their numbers. And what do we do? We try to use pesticides to keep them under. But these pesticides also kill our bees and our butterflies. So our crop yield would also reduce because the pollinators have been wiped out.

So we need to actually turn back to nature and to natural means of control of these pests and and termites. So we need to save these pangolins in order to save humanity.

[00:12:22] Crystal: The pangolins are the ones eating the ants and the term.

[00:12:25] Mark: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:12:28] Crystal: We’re all connected. A hundred percent. We are.

[00:12:30] Mark: Yes, absolutely.

[00:12:32] Crystal: So after all that, is there reason for hope?

[00:12:36] Mark: Ah, if you had asked me this question four years ago, I would almost have said no hope. But I found my faith along the line as I was. When I started, a lot of people felt I was mad. I was crazy. I was called crazy to my face. Even my friends and fellow veterinarians, they, they, they taught me a centric or insane.

Somebody once brought a mirror to me and said, mark, look at it. Look at the mirror. Look at who is in the mirror. You are a black man. Stop acting or pretending to be a white person or something. It’s not in our culture. It’s not in our nature. I’m telling. But as the work went on, like I said, I found my faith because I saw more and more people listening.

Even amongst the hunters and the bush traders, they are now listening. I have started a club, a conservation club for the children of hunters and bush traders and their parents appearance enthusiastically allow these kids to be a part of this club because they want the children to grow to be like me.

So these activities have given me faith. I grew up knowing that the government was non about our wildlife, about our biodiversity, but now more and more they, we see that they’re willing to listen. They’re willing to enforce exempt laws. They are joining us in putting up new laws. They will change the way we relate with our biodiversity.

Recently, law enforcement have made several. And arrested the people, poaching these beautiful animals and all that. So you see that slowly but surely, we’re getting responses. We have all the people that are now more and more interested in fighting for, uh, wildlife, in fighting for a pangolin in conservation.

You have more and more institutions signing on the fight. We have more and more people joining the fact that I’m on this program talking with you, talking with. Shows there is hope. It gives me courage, you see? So yes, I can happily say there is hope. And I call on everyone listening to me. I call on everyone hearing me to join hands to see how we can save.

Beautiful pan.

[00:15:06] Crystal: My next guest is Elisa Pang. She works as a pangolin conservation Officer at Derran Field Center in Saba, Malaysia, focusing on pangolin education and public awareness. Her champion project aims to build public support for pangolin conservation through continued advocacy and outreach. Elisa, thank you so much for joining me today.

It’s great to have you. Oh, thank you so

[00:15:30] Elisa: much for inventing me

[00:15:30] Crystal: today. What motivates your pangolin work? Why did you go into.

[00:15:35] Elisa: I started my interest in Pangolins when I was a child back in the 1990s. I saw my first Pangolin at the forest Age near my family house. I remember I was playing with my friends at that time, and then I suddenly stopped playing when I saw the weirdest and the coolest animal I had ever seen.

And then I didn’t know it was a pango at. I had to run to the house to get my mother to tell me what it was. My mother told me it was a tling in a local name for Pangolin. So she continued to describe the animal, and at that moment I think I fell in love with that Pangolin. So from then on, I think my interest in science, you know, grew, especially anything about wildlife science.

And then I remember that on my student report card, I wrote that I wanted to be a scientist. Amazingly, that is what I am now and specializing in Pangolins.

[00:16:42] Crystal: And what’s the trafficking situation like where you are?

[00:16:46] Elisa: Oh, it’s terrible. For example, I think we need to see the, the root cause, the wildlife trafficking itself.

It’s, it’s really, it’s really. I, I think it’s orchestrated by organized syndicate crimes, right? So it’s really big. But who supplied this pangolins to this, to this syndicate? We need to see the, the root cause. So where I work, the communities eat pangolins and they sell pangolins. So it’s quite challenging.

It’s quite challenging for me to engage with these communities because that’s the lifestyle, right? Mm-hmm. , we need to understand why. hunts and then eat and sell the pangolins. And then in the end there’s, there’s so many stage in the end, eventually it’ll end up in the wildlife traffickers, and then now the growth and the accessibility of the internet facilitate wildlife crime.

So in my country, this is very huge and challenging to solve. So I think, yeah. Wildlife Cru is, is really big now

[00:17:52] Crystal: and are people eating them because there’s not another source of protein for them.

[00:17:58] Elisa: Actually culturally, I mean, historically in, in, in my community, they have been eating pangolins and other wildlife as a, as,

[00:18:08] Crystal: as part of the

[00:18:08] Elisa: culture.

Yes. And subsistence. Yeah. But. I don’t think they’re, they’re selling pangolins because of that belief now. So in the past they believe the scales and the meat and the, the blood, they could kill some diseases, but because the price is re is getting, it’s is higher now. So the communities, the hunters, they, the poachers, they opt to sell pangolins.

And now because the pangolins become rare, the price getting more higher. So most of the motivation of the, the hunters now is, is not to eat them, but to generate income. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:47] Crystal: To sell them. So in your work that you’re doing with the Pangolin champions, it says on the website that you’re aiming to build public support for pangolin conservation through continued advocacy and outreach.

Have you seen a change over time with the work that you guys are.

[00:19:07] Elisa: for me, even small changes a change, right? So this project with the safe pangolins was started in 2020 22. Yeah. March, 2022. And then I’m very thankful with the safe Pangolins for supporting my project. So this, this project I am working and collaborating with a lot of stakeholders.

For example, the, the department and other conservation NGOs, and we organize, um, series of work planning workshops with the, with the law enforcements, with the conservation NGOs. So mostly conservation front liners, for example, the. Fringes. Yeah. I think these people are important, right? They’re add in the front line to protect and concept the pangolins.

And then apart from that, my team and I, we also visited some of the communities, for example, as the rural villages, the schools, and then we distributed. Educational materials in the form of posters or flyers, booklets, just to increase the, the awareness on Pangolin, because most of these, if, if I can give you example, most of these rural villages, they, I mean, they know about protecting the, the forest.

They, they are there in that area for a long time, so they know, but then they, they, the lack of knowledge on. Protection status. There’s some, some species, you cannot eat them because the law is protecting them. So they, they don’t have this kind of information. So we need the law enforcement, the, the government or the NGOs.

They need to go to these communities and engage with them and they understand what their perspective and then motivate them to participate in, in conservation. So what I have seen just during this one year and a. Yes, we, we have done our best. We invited many, many stakeholders and we inform them. We, we share knowledge, we train them, but conservation is a slow process.

It doesn’t happen, you know, it doesn’t give you results so fast. So it takes time.

[00:21:24] Crystal: How, how do you change people’s minds?

[00:21:28] Elisa: Oh, that, that’s a really hard question. culture. Yeah. Yeah. Culture and belief. Actually, it’s something. , it’s a history. You cannot really change them, but you can integrate this, this culture and belief to support conservation, right?

So I, I learned that it can never be separated, for example, in, in my community, like, like I said before, uh, hunting is the way of life and. And not clearing the forest to grow crops is also their lifestyle. As conservationists, we, we cannot just go to the place and then set rules, like, you cannot clear this forest and you cannot because we need to conserve the species.

Yeah. So it’s really hard to, to change this, but then what we can do is to engage with them, learn their culture and their belief, and he educate them so that they can. Our, our champion, you know, to, to protect the pengos. Yeah, I think that that’s, that, that’s how I see it. I cannot really change culture and people’s belief, but I, I want to understand them and then, um, motivate them to, to help me to consider pengos.

[00:22:44] Crystal: Do you have any examples you can share? Any stories that pop out in your mind?

[00:22:49] Elisa: Yes. I think it was one of the things that we did when we speak with someone who wants to sell with how we this, so one, one Hunter encounter the Pangolins. Yeah. Encounter a pan And then this person want to sell it because it’s an OP opportunity.

I mean, he said he can get a lot of money then saving it and, you know, surrender it to us. But then when we speak with that person, tell him, what is the story behind the Pangolin? Why do you need to protect it? Why do you need to conserve it? Eventually he, he give in and then we manage to save the pangolins, and then few years after that, the same person.

rescue the Pangolin and then surround it to the law enforcement, that that is actually very positive. That is what I see. That’s what I see. We change people mindset, so it’s good to help the, the, the animals. Yeah. , absolutely.

[00:23:57] Crystal: Kumar Padel is the co-founder and director of Green Hood n. A conservation nonprofit focused on protecting Nepal’s most threatened and neglected wildlife. His champion project aims to fulfill the data gap on the pangolin trade in Nepal, enhanced public engagement in pangolins, and strengthen conservation awareness of the people to inspire them to save pangolins.

Hi Kumar. Thanks so much for joining me today. How are you?

[00:24:23] Kumar: Hi Crystal. Thank you for having me today. This is so nice to talk about. Bang.

[00:24:29] Crystal: What motivates your Pangolin work? So

[00:24:32] Kumar: sometimes I get telephone from the community that I work with. They say they rescue your Pangolin and release it to the habitat instead of eating it.

And sometime I get called from the enforcement agencies asking questions about how they can better develop the court case against. PO or the trafficker of the pangolins. So all these is small things. Develop the what against them? Yeah. Developed the court case. So when they see court case, pangolin parts, then they develop court case and file in a court.

Right. So when I get those, those kind of the small things from the enforcement and the communities, I feel that, oh, so at least Poon, pangolin is being rescued. Juan Pangolin is being saved from the poach. Or from being eaten by the villager. So that kind of things really motivates me to work further for Pangolins.

[00:25:25] Crystal: And what kind of challenges are you facing in Nepal with the conservation of the Pangolin? Uh,

[00:25:31] Kumar: pangolin conservation itself a challenge. And again, so being, being from global south, like one of the list double of country like Nepal, there are limited conservation capacity. , right? So we don’t have much people who can actually develop conserves in intervention, implement monitor, so effectively enforce the laws and regulation.

We don’t have that much capacity. So that is one thing. And another thing is also, even though, so we have capacity in some people, there is always difficulty to raise funding for the conservation war because conservation is not really a first priority for the country. I work in, so generally the pubity, some other human needs are always in the uh, priority for the government and also for the communities.

So it’s really difficult to shake your funding to make sure the conservation work goes smoothly. and also to develop some new intervention.

[00:26:34] Crystal: Is there any way to somehow merge the conservation needs with the HU human needs?

[00:26:42] Elisa: Yeah,

[00:26:43] Kumar: definitely. I think so. That is something we need to look if we, if we wanna.

Go for the conserv for the long run because without, without having the public buy-in, conserv is almost impossible. So you need to find some ways how we can benefit the local communities out of the Conserv.

[00:27:01] Crystal: And in your time doing this work, have you seen a cha a behavior change over the years?

[00:27:09] Kumar: So if you’re referring the behavior of the communities to our span, , is that correct?

[00:27:15] Crystal: Yes. Yes. Are people more receptive or is it, has it been very difficult to, to get them to change their habits?

[00:27:24] Kumar: People knew about the Pangolin for a long time because it was there in the community for the A, but the, there was not mass awareness. So I’m also one of the example, because I grew up in a banging community.

I mean the, our village was also Pangolin habitat is still, it is, and I didn’t know anything about Pangolin and it’s Conserv importance, but later on, so I learned about it in the university, and then I’m working to protect Pangolin from the extinction. Similarly, there are many people who are advocating for the Pangolins now, so the Pangolin concepts in communities increasing and also visiting many places across nep.

I have felt that people have, people are more aware about the pangolin conservation now, and also people are feeling sad to eat the Pangolin or kill the Pangolin. So things are getting improved, which is very

[00:28:23] Crystal: exciting when you go into communities to talk to them about the importance of protecting the pangolin.

What information or what. Stories, what actually resonates with them the most. Resonates with them the

[00:28:39] Kumar: most. Oh, so when we go to the community and talk with them. So one thing they say, Nipple. We have lots of mega founder, right? The trier, rhino, elephant lipid. So we have many big mega founder and also we have lots of other wildlife species like monkey, and most of them are problem causing to the local communities.

Some are, some hums to people, some hums their crop, some hums their may house. But the Pangolin, it doesn’t pose any wrecks to human and also they don’t destroy crops or or anything. So when we talk with the community, generally when we talk about the behavior, unique nature of the Pangolin, they find it interesting and also, , they feel, oh, so Pangolin is not actually bothering us or not much providing the trouble, so we, we shouldn’t be also pushing bricks to the pangolins.

So that’s what they compare with other pieces. And also when we talk about the ecological growth of the Pangolin, like how much an and termite it is and how it makes the forest fertile in taking all the burs. So those kind of theological value in a simple way. It is working in a benefit of the people and the nature.

[00:30:00] Crystal: Do you have any favorite stories that you like to share?

[00:30:03] Kumar: Yeah, there are many stories, but when I was a kid, I learned about the Pangolin as a ghost because I used to go to sleep in a cow with my father to protect our buffalos and cows from leopard. And then at the night we used to hear the Pangolin digging the burrow and.

I was for so afraid to go out and see because I have heard so many ghosty stories and in the morning when I go out and see there is nothing. Just the boroughs. And for the long time I was feeling, oh, so the ghost is coming to our farm. And then digging burrow. But , later on I realized that it’s not ghost.

So, yeah, it, it, it was a really interesting experience and recently I have written is how, how, how the, the ghosts turned into the very precious wildlife species and hopefully species for the people. So that is story I have covered, you know, children’s story book. Which is coming out very soon. I’m going to the many school across Nepal.

Oh, very nice.

[00:31:10] Crystal: All right. Is there, is there anything else that you would like to add before we sign off?

[00:31:15] Kumar: Just one thing I wanna tell people is that I’m very hopeful that we can still save this species from the extinction, but it’s not only possible by the one individual or one community. So we need to get all hands by whatever means.

So we need to get together and. To support the conservation program so that we can protect this spaces from that strengthen.

[00:31:46] Crystal: And last but not least is Carla Luis Mu. She works as a forensic scientist with a National Park Agency of Gabon using forensic science to investigate wildlife crime and support law enforcement efforts. She established the Gabon Pangolin working Group, aiming to bring together key stakeholders in Gabon and strengthen pangolin conservation efforts.

So you actually work in forensic science. How does that help with wildlife, crime investigation and prosecution?

[00:32:20] Carla: Okay. I have a very good story. I can tell you about this Pangolin DNA on forensic application one day border control service in central Africa country. Sage, a large shipment of Mike Port.

Boxes from Africa to Asia. You understand? What was it? Boxes of what? No, milk Powder

[00:32:47] Crystal: boxes. Oh, milk powder. Okay. They were shipping milk powder from that to Asia,

[00:32:53] Carla: Africa to Asia. Exactly. So the. The, the controllers to the borders was just surprised that Asia countries need to import powder milk from Africa.

So they open the boxes and they find white powders. So they, they find the white powder on the boxes, but after analysis, they determine that this folder is Sping scales folder. .

[00:33:25] Crystal: Oh, they, they pulverized the scales to make into a powder.

[00:33:30] Carla: Yeah,

[00:33:31] Crystal: exactly. Were the people in charge of this trafficking caught, did they figure out who was behind it?

Yes, they,

[00:33:41] Carla: they were arrested. They were arrested because the controls was able to have the result of analysis of this folder. and after analysis they determined that, okay, that is not milk. That is ol scales.

[00:33:57] Crystal: Yes. Huh. Were you a part of the forensics? No.

[00:34:00] Carla: In this, behind that? In this time I was not working on forensic, uh, science domain.

I was a younger student who just starts working on Pangolin conservation.

[00:34:14] Crystal: Okay. But it goes to show you the necessity of forensic science in

[00:34:19] Carla: Exactly.

[00:34:21] Crystal: Awesome. And what motivates your pangolin work?

[00:34:25] Carla: Okay. The, the people in the rural areas. Give the testimonies that it’s, it’s very difficult now to find Pangolin in Nature.

Example. In the past, they can just walk and they can meet Pangolin by walking in afternoon. But now it’s very, very difficult for them to meet Pangolin. It’s a lucky day when they can meet Pangolin. So for me, when I, I understood their testimonies. Realize that the population of Mongo in GA also decrease, but I need to prove it.

And to prove it, I need data. I need a study. So I think that, okay, if I can mobilize people and give people something like inspiration to make studies. So we can have data and we can enforce PGO conservation in my country.

[00:35:27] Crystal: And why did you choose to focus on Pangolins?

[00:35:30] Carla: Pangolin is vulnerable animals. They cannot fight to survive.

When Pangolin feel a danger, they just

[00:35:41] Crystal: talk. Oh, they roll up into a ball.

[00:35:42] Carla: That’s right. Yeah, exactly. They just roll up on a board. Mm-hmm. ? Yes. This strategy is working with. But this strategy is not working with human because human just take them. You just pick them up. . Exactly. Yeah. Uh, yes. Pangolin roll up on a ball and people just pick up the ball, put in their bag, and they can continue.

Yes. So this animal is very, very vulnerable to human people. Sincerely.

[00:36:15] Crystal: Absolutely. What are the challenges of, of being a conservation practitioner in your country?

[00:36:24] Carla: So it’s really important for me to have materials to do my awareness campaign. And sometimes in my country it is difficult to even have flyers.

Because here kaban is very, very expensive country. It’s not easy. So for me, my, my main challenge is to get materials, everything people can do to help me to get something like stickers, flyers, t-shirts, po costume, small gifts for children for our activities in elementary schools will help. . And one story I can give you about it is example.

I remember a girl I gave a small Pangolin toy. A Pangolin, a small Pangolin, and five years ago she finished her high school level and she go to the university outside the country. But she told me that. With this toy, she’s continuing the awareness campaign because the other people there ask to them, what is that?

She just say, it’s Panol. You don’t know Panol. Polin is a really, really great animal, but with a lot of problem and I’m so, no, I, I don’t have a word to explain cause I was very, very happy and I realized impact this kind of materials can have to young people.

[00:38:05] Crystal: Yeah. That’s a really great story. I’m glad you added that.

Thank you. What do you tell people? Like why should we celebrate and conserve pangolins?

[00:38:14] Carla: That is also good question. Pangolins has a charismatic animal that contribute to the wellbeing of our ecosystem, which is therefore essential. Yet they face so many problem with humans at the center. The word Pangolin days is one day human can make action to help Pangolin example.

What I like to do is awareness, and I think that the first level of awareness is information. Just provide information to people. Just give information to people. If the beginning of awareness is the beginning of behavioral change, because when people are informed, then after that people can make the decision to.

So for this world Pangolin days, information about Pangolin can reach the ends of the earth, and so big change can begin.

[00:39:31] Crystal: These inspiring individuals are just four out of the 12 Pangolin champions that the organization Safe Pangolins has accepted into their program. The collective impact that these individuals are having is helping to improve the chances of what some may have thought was a doomed species. Each of them left me with ideas on what you, the listener can do to help, and I’ve listed them in the show notes, but two of the biggest things I wanna ask you to.

Is to one, help spread the word about and celebrate Pangolin’s this World Pangolin Day, February 18th and two. Donate if you can, to save pangolins. These champions are making a difference for these animals, their ecosystems, and the people they live among.

Don’t forget to go to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at becoming Forces for Nature, and let me know what actions you have been taking.

Adopting just one habit can be a game changer because imagine if a million people also adopted that. What difference for the world are you going to make today?