[00:00:00] Crystal: Want to know how you too can be a force for nature. Head on over to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive a free guide with practical actions that you can start taking today. I’m crystal Z Macelli and welcome to the forces for nature show.

Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the dooming, the new hero of these days? Do you feel like you it’s just one person can’t really make. Forces for nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview somebody who’s doing great things for animals and the environment we talked through, the problem they’re addressing the solution.

They have found what keeps them going, and we’ll leave you with practical action tips so that YouTube can become a force for [00:00:45] nature. Today’s guests are Nina and Jeff flockin the founders of the emerging wildlife conservation leaders program. Otherwise known as. UCal is near and dear to my heart, myself, having been accepted into its fourth cohort 10 years ago.

Now it was one of those pivotal experiences for me, both professionally and even personally more on that a little later Hugo was created to fill a need for more well-rounded connected and skilled leaders in the conservation. They’ve delivered on that and so much more, be sure to listen until the end to learn how you can get involved in one of the best professional development opportunities out there.[00:01:30]

Hi, Nina and Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on forces for nature. It’s so great to have you.

[00:01:40] Jeff Flocken: It is fantastic to be here, crystal.

[00:01:42] Nina Fascione: Her are awesome this year. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:46] Crystal: Today, we’re going to be talking about the emerging wildlife conservation leaders. And before we get into the details of what exactly the program is, can you tell me a little bit about what your motivation was behind the creation of what’s otherwise known as.

I can

[00:02:02] Jeff Flocken: start with that first thought. Nina and I were both kind of heres and the conservation of wildlife community coming in together. And as such, we were able to see some of the things that were really frustrating and we were both so passionate and [00:02:15] excited about conservation and seeing. Lack of capacity and lack of training, lack of opportunity, stifling.

What could otherwise be a very successful individuals and effort from the conservation field was really frustrating. So the two of us sat down and after many, many times complaining about some of the things we were seeing that we didn’t care for and the leadership in the community or lack of vision, we decided to do something.

[00:02:38] Nina Fascione: W one of the other things we have discussed is that people learn a lot of technical things in college and in grad school, but then they don’t learn really some of the more hands-on skills. And we talked about that and then a third aspect we talked about and, oh my gosh, Jeff, this year, A million years ago, I think it was a million.

And one years [00:03:00] ago, when you’re young in the profession, it’s hard to break in or your older colleagues are established. Um, frankly, when I was a young colleague view, you know, my older colleagues went out and played golf together on that, you know, on a Wednesday. And it’s hard to kind of break into those circles.

And so part of our initial motivation was to help. These emerging leaders, these early career professionals create their own networks and grow up with their own peer groups and networks on or off the golf course, but talking about wildlife conservation. So when

[00:03:30] Crystal: did you guys create

[00:03:30] Jeff Flocken: Yukon at this point? I think it was about 17 years ago.

Does that sound

[00:03:34] Nina Fascione: right? Nina? I think that’s it. Jeff and I were doing a koala workshop together on Australia and started this conversation. I came back and just started to inflate.

[00:03:43] Jeff Flocken: Well, w the [00:03:45] implantation actually was part of the fun. We hold together. Some of our favorite people in the conservation field, people that we love to being around, loved laughing with and working with, and all of who we’d seen as being real, the kinds of leaders they wanted to see more of in the field.

And we asked if they’d like to join our board. And what happened then is we had this incredible group get together and start brainstorming how we can really do something to help change conservation and the conservation. And a very positive way of what we were hoping for. And. Thrilled to say, I think it worked and it was a very much a group effort with a lot of great minds putting their heads together.

[00:04:22] Nina Fascione: Can I tell a story? You can go, you can edit this out for still, but one thing about the emerging wildlife countries and leaders program is that [00:04:30] everybody loves to tell Jeff stories. So definitely know what you’re going to say. Jeff and I were did all of this on our weekends and our evenings, right. This was outside of our jobs.

And so we were in my work office over a weekend. Preparing all the materials for the first ever UCO class working so hard, but the alarm system was on in the building and I’m short enough that I didn’t set off the alarm, but Jeff’s very tall. And so every time he walked anywhere and he was sending the alarm system off in the building.

So that’s one part of the Genesis of bugle. Jeff had to like kind of creep around the office, building out to set off the alarms as we were prepping for our first ever training.

[00:05:09] Jeff Flocken: I remember the lot of weekends and evenings. And actually, so this is another legal story. We [00:05:15] are having equal board meeting right before training.

It was coming up and it was, you know, a snowstorm happening. And I was at my house and it was on the weekend and my wife went into labor. And we were about to have our first, our first child first, or our only child. And Nina was like, you should really go. And I’m like, it’s okay. We’ve got time. We’ve got to finish this call.

And everybody on the call was like, what, what do you mean? I’m like, it’s not that far to the hospital. It’s just a little snow storm. We’ll be fine. We’ve got to wrap this up. And so that was one of those weekends where you will kind of dominate it. Mary’s still kind of. Forgive me for that one.

[00:05:51] Crystal: I could imagine why.

Oh, that’s great. I mean, so that I think is absolutely Testament to. Both of you [00:06:00] guys and all the people who are involved in Google it, the passion that everybody brings to the program is above and beyond and borderline crazy. We’re like

[00:06:12] Nina Fascione: crazy. If we’re talking passionate about. I think you have the best Hugo passion story because Jeff and I were both willing to share with your audience, your,

[00:06:25] Crystal: that passion story.

Well, uh, yes, that’s such a good story and I can make it really long or could try to make it short. Let’s see how it comes out. So I was going to my second training of vehicle and at the time I was doing a fellowship in. [00:06:45] And so I had arrived in Florida. And as a matter of fact, I reached out to Jeff and Nina for advice before taking this fellowship opportunity.

And Jeff was like, no, that sounds like, no, don’t do it. Do you remember that job? And Nina was like, yes, that’s a great idea. You should totally. This has a little bit of a kudos to Nina.

[00:07:06] Nina Fascione: Thank you. I take full responsibility for what happened next.

[00:07:12] Crystal: So I arrive in Florida and I’m at the baggage claim and Nina comes and meets me at the baggage claim and you’re like, oh, I forgot to tell you.

There was somebody else also from Panama on the plane with you. There is another you color. [00:07:30] And so, as we were walking to the van after getting the luggage, I see this handsome man standing outside the dad and I’m thinking, damn, I can’t believe you forgot. And we get in the van and we’re driving to white Oak where the training was taking place and he’s sitting behind me and we’re all chatting and he’s got this like deep, sexy, buttery voice.

And I’m just like totally sold. But it was very professional week. We both had back to Panama or separate ways because we weren’t. Parts of Panama, but then as Javier tells me a few weeks, or a couple months later, he gets an email from Jeff who asks him, have you checked in on crystal? Is she doing all right [00:08:15] there in Panama?

And he’s like, oh yes, yes, let me, let me reach out to her and see if she’s okay. So this is where Jeff comes in.

[00:08:22] Nina Fascione: I knew I didn’t realize that. Jeff gets some credit.

[00:08:26] Crystal: So Javier reaches out to me and well, long story, long story short, we ended up connecting. I go visit him in Panama city. And nine years later were married and traveling around the world due to both of you.

And I know. It’s my favorite eucalyptus story. I like it a lot. Now that we’ve learned a little bit about what went into creating this program. Can you tell me [00:09:00] more about what it is?

[00:09:02] Nina Fascione: UCO is a two year leadership training program for early career wildlife professionals, and it has three primary components.

We work on. Skills training and a very experiential way. We work on a networking. There’s a huge networking component with other classmates graduates of the program, board members, other professionals that we bring in and then the third component, maybe the most fun, but they’re all equally important is that each class may divide into four groups and works on kind of a hands-on in C2 or in the field concept.

Project over the course of their two year program. And so when they graduate, they have this huge network of [00:09:45] friends and colleagues and allies and people. Well, as your story shares, I’ll have gotten very close through the program. And then they have the skills training, including everything from how to write a grant proposal to they practice doing press and interviews and that sort of thing, how to create a campaign, all sorts of skills training.

And then they have a conservation project under the.

[00:10:07] Jeff Flocken: You know, with the conservation project, it may seem redundant since they’re already all in the field working, but the thing is particularly with the larger organizations, folks, get in a niche either they’re in fundraising or they’re in communications or they’re in scientific research or campaigning.

Because of that, they don’t get a lot of exposure to the other aspects that go to a successful campaign. And that actually hinders them as they [00:10:30] become a leader, the right up in their windup organizations, because they only really have hands-on experience with one aspect of what they’re doing. And eventually there’ll be taking leadership roles in supervising and guiding larger campaigns.

We’ll have to have a better understanding. So with these smaller isolated campaigns, they undertake while they’re a new goal, they get a holistic experience. They get. Do a project from planning to implementation, to monitoring all the aspects and really getting a better understanding of what their colleagues do on a daily basis as well.

Being able to use their own skills and show the people in the equal class, how to do what they’re most experienced with no, who

[00:11:07] Crystal: does go cater to, I think it may have mentioned.

[00:11:11] Jeff Flocken: Yeah, you go was really founded to help early conservationists [00:11:15] who are doing wildlife constellation either locally. Nationwide or internationally.

And that tends to be people who are in their late twenties, early thirties, all the way to late thirties. Also, we have a mix of folks who are here in the U S practicing international conservation, as well as folks outside of the. Who are doing conservation, their own countries, almost every class, which tends to be between 20 and 25.

Participants has three to five international participants who are funded by some of our great sponsors, like the Houston zoo or wildlife conservation network. What are their

[00:11:49] Nina Fascione: aspect of the diversity? We try. Classes that we have folks from nonprofit organizations. We’ve had state agency, folks, federal agency, folks, people within [00:12:00] private industry that work on conservation.

And frankly, we have had a very interesting cross cutting sector of people that run the conservation spectrum in terms of philosophies from people, meaning animal welfare side of things, all the way to your more hook and bullet. As I. Uh, side of conservation and that has led to some really interesting conversations in the classroom.

[00:12:23] Crystal: Can you tell me what the role of the partners have been in all that?

[00:12:27] Jeff Flocken: One of the things that makes it very unique is that if a participant’s accepted, they’re not required to pay for any of this. This is actually all covered by incredibly generous sponsor groups and partners who saw the need to build this camps capacity.

And to find new ways to bring up and [00:12:45] coming leaders into their own. So we’ve been working from the very beginning with the white Oak conservation center in Yulee, Florida. Who’s probably been our biggest sponsor, but we’ve also had other groups that have been with us for a long time world wildlife fund, the Houston zoo, wildlife conservation network, us fish and wildlife service, and then see robust gardens and Disney.

We we’ve had some really, really amazing groups step up. In addition to that, we also have our project partner. Nina. Did you want to talk about.

[00:13:14] Nina Fascione: Yeah, I can start with this one and I’ll start by joking with a lot of huge debates amongst the board of directors, because of course we all have our favorite taxonomic groups, but really we look for projects that a group of individuals can [00:13:30] do from afar.

Now it’s interesting, as it turns out over the years, many, many of our participants have wound up visiting and working a little bit in the countries where the species are held, but really we’re looking for. Type of project for folks to do, which is something concrete, something that can be mostly done from afar and, and one where there is a sponsoring or partner organization that’s willing to work with this group because it takes some training.

They’ve got to be willing to put a little time into helping and assisting now. Project partners and mean there’ve been many questions jump in with over eight classes, you know, times for each. Yeah. So we’ve had, well over 30 project [00:14:15] partners and the projects often wind up to be so valuable to them. We’ve had project partners come back and kind of beg to get another Hugo class working on their projects.

And, and these are nonprofits large and small around the world. Everything from. You know, that’s to lions, to bears, to all sorts of critters rhinos were the latest class of four different rhino projects. And then they each have their own project partner that have been men. Let me shout out to anybody who’s listening, who has been a UCO project partner, because we thank you for helping us train and, and educate these early career professionals.

And hopefully you’ve all gotten something out of it for your own species that you work on.

[00:14:56] Crystal: What would you say has been the biggest challenge so far? [00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Jeff Flocken: I would say the biggest challenge so far has been the pandemic. A lot of what people get out of Hugo who go through the course is this incredible bonding with the other fellow participants, but also the opportunity to network with established leaders, either speakers who come in for this or the board members all to volunteer and want to share what they’ve learned and healthy people will go forward in their career.

And unfortunately, the. Really set us back class eight, which is the class I got saddled with this global pandemic. Weren’t able to meet in person. They had the first meeting together, which is great, but typically the second year they come back together and then they come back together for a third time company by the graduation and the world being what it’s been for the last two years, we had to keep [00:15:45] postponing and then canceled.

These in-person training. Then luckily, you know, our trainers and our board, and everyone stepped up with these virtual trainings and lots of opportunity, but it’s really not the same thing. You’re a part of that magic that merging wild caught fish and leaders have cultivated has been through the in-person.

Gatherings and bonding that happened typically at white Florida and some type of other places as well. So that’s been a struggle. We want that class to have the same incredible experience that the first seven classes had, and we really had to adapt and try to figure out how to make that happen. The state of the world.

[00:16:21] Nina Fascione: I I’ll add to that. I completely agree that a pandemic relates to this poor class, but, you know, in every cloud has a silver lining kind of thing. The [00:16:30] class stepped up in such a huge way and found their own way to bond virtually. And also, I will say that the projects delivered by this class were phenomenal.

They had extra time because. Dragged on. We joke for like, oh my God, it’s been 10 years since this pandemic started. But so they had extra time to work on it, but they, they actually did that. They put all this extra energy and we had four phenomenal all of rhino. There’s something near and dear to my heart projects come out of this class.

And so they made the best of it and hats off to them

[00:17:04] Crystal: after you agree that some of my favorite memories were from the in-person meetings. But they, they did a phenomenal job with their projects and they seem to have [00:17:15] made lemonade from lemons. They did so, so great with all of, with all of the successes that you guys have had over the years and the wonderful projects that have come through and, and just the great connections people have made.

I can go on and on. Do you have a particular moment that you said to yourself, this, this is why I do it like a success story or some proud

[00:17:43] Jeff Flocken: moment with my first, I think it would have to be our pangolin story for listeners. Aren’t familiar with pangolin. They are this incredible manual. Scales founded African Asia.

And as importantly has the dubious distinction of being the most [00:18:00] trafficked mammal in the world and they’re incredibly endangered. And so that was one of the, I think it was class two or three. We selected penguins as a project for the folks to work on. And that group came together and they did a really great education educational project in Southeast Asia where trafficking and demand both happened over that.

It’d be habitat for a couple of species of penguins and afterward the group enjoyed working on this so much that they stayed together. And two of them went on to form save pangolin and an NGO devoted to pangolin conservation on top of their day jobs. And I’m so excited to say that one of them.

Actually as a co-chair of the IUC UCN pangolin [00:18:45] specialist group, which is the world’s leading authority on penguins and pangolin science and conservation. So they both very generously credit UCal to putting me on this course and their license, by the way, the other one heads up the pangolin conservation fund for the water competition network, which literally puts hundreds of thousands of dollars, a depending on conservation annually.

So they both have been such incredible. Ambassadors for equal in the way that they have taken their species project and made it part of their career and made such a big difference for that. That’s a

[00:19:16] Nina Fascione: great story. And I completely agree with that example. I will add to that, that any time we hear, and it happens a lot about jobs that someone has gotten because of a UCO connection [00:19:30] and promotions they’ve gotten, and supervisor has said, you know, you’ve really come back.

Skills from that merging wildlife conservation leaders training. And I will say thank you to all the people who reached back out to us and let us know that they feel like their UCal journey has really helped them or their Google connections. That boy that is just, you know, affirming in a huge one. And maybe one other quick example I’ll give is every graduation.

The graduations are very fun. In fact, we’re hoping to have one this December for this current class finally, and they can get very emotional because people have gotten so close over the years. I’m trying to remember your graduation crystal, but some of them, there are a lot of tears. I remember one, I’m hearing some people crying near me, you know, happy, [00:20:15] emotional tears.

And I look over and Franklin was a bunch of board members crying along with the class because they, they, they hate to. Leave each other and they hate for the class to end. And boy, if there’s ever a reason to say, this is why I volunteer my time for this,

[00:20:29] Crystal: would you say is a lesson or two that you’ve learned since starting

[00:20:32] Jeff Flocken: UCal?

I’ll jump in first and just say leadership styles. When I came in and started, you know, you call it, I kind of assume that most of the participants said the leader of the coming out of it. My leadership style would tend to be very extroverted and a little bit more type a and what I found was some of the participants who applied for this and just by virtue of applying and getting selected, they’ve shown some leadership skills actually have a wide range of ways.

They [00:21:00] approach leadership. And sometimes those who are a little bit quieter and softer in their approach. Even more effective than those that mirror my style, which it tends to be a little bit more out there. So it’s been a great experience. It’s actually helped me in my career when I am dealing with people who approach things very differently.

And I just have to think, well, they have a very different leadership style and I need to be aware of it and respect it and work within what makes them comfortable. Oh,

[00:21:27] Nina Fascione: Our trainings have evolved over the years. We have learned from the participants. We ourselves become better trainers. If there’s one life lesson I’ve learned it’s that teaching is very easy because you help raise a topic and then you let your adult students, as I’m sure this isn’t true with kindergartners, when [00:21:45] you’re, when you’re teaching adults, you know, they bring their own knowledge and life experiences to the class.

And so really it’s us putting together. The ability for them to bring their own experiences and learn from each other as much as learning anything from us.

[00:22:00] Crystal: Jeff, you mentioned the pangolin project, but do you guys have any other key achievements from the projects that you can can think of with long-term impacts or.

[00:22:11] Jeff Flocken: Sure. We actually try really hard to monitor our own class while it’s teaching monitoring evaluation, interpreters events, to make sure that we are succeeding in the goals that we’ve set out. And with every project that come forward, you know, we need to have them demonstrate a measurable outcome. That’s [00:22:30] advanced conservation of the species that they’ve been focused on.

So it’s really been rewarding to watch this happen with the most recent. But needed mentioned. They were very focused on rhinos, all four groups, each one took a different rhino species and had a different partner. They all were doing rhino conservation. And I’ll just mention one of them, the black rhino group set out to make a difference in helping Rangers and park Rangers who on the front lines and risked their life every day to help protect this critically endangered species.

And what they did was they talked to the ranger and found out what they need. To be more successful and set up this incredibly compelling outreach campaign about what Rangers need and what they deserve. [00:23:15] And not only did they create this really exciting campaign that Rangers got excited about partaking in and participating in, and they brought it to the world, ranger Congress, but they also then worked with the group rewild to create a series of videos narrated by the actor.

What’s his name and Norton and Norton, they were animated. And there were, I think there were almost five videos that they made each one exploring a different aspect of what these Rangers go through to help save the species. And it just was one of those really impactful, impactful efforts that went above and beyond what we’d even dreamed as project could do.

In a limited time with a group of people who weren’t necessarily experienced in doing this type of project. What’s

[00:23:59] Crystal: [00:24:00] next in store for you Google and further in the future.

[00:24:04] Nina Fascione: Well, we are taking applications for our next class class nine. And by the way, we did not mention, we also had a Caribbean emerging wildlife conservation leaders class.

So we’ve had eight us and one Caribbean, and we’re taking applications currently for class nine, which will start next spring. And so you can, people can look on our website, wildlife leaders.org. For the application, the criteria are on there. You can see the projects from every one of the classes. You can see the participants from that past 17 years and learn more about

[00:24:40] Jeff Flocken: it.

And the website also shows the incredible breadth of this [00:24:45] network. Not only all, you know, 200 participants that have gone through it and where they started and where they are now, but also you have this incredibly dynamic board filled with experienced individuals and all the partners. And all the sponsors, and if you put them all together, it really represents, I would say a huge chunk of the conservation community.

So if somebody wants to see what conservation looks like and what kind of careers out there, this is a great site to start.

[00:25:12] Crystal: And link to the website and your social media and the application in the show notes for anybody it’s easily find Jeff Indiana. I was so happy to have gotten to chat with you guys.

UCal has meant so much to me, both professionally and personally, [00:25:30] and I am excited to see it grow and continue. Thank you for all that you’re doing. You’re making a difference.

[00:25:38] Jeff Flocken: And crystal, I want to jump in and say one more thing that has been one of those heartwarming highlights from Nicole. And I call that forces for nature is so wonderful to see one of the alumni going out there and telling good stories and happy stories, success stories about saving animals and saving the planet.

So thank you. This is one of those things that makes me feel great about having been part of UCO and having been there from the very beginning, alongside.

[00:26:04] Nina Fascione: Yes. Hear, hear I totally second that, and also crystal, you know, you’re one of my favorite people in the world. So I’m getting to know you as certainly been a highlight.[00:26:15]

[00:26:15] Crystal: I love these two they’re wonderful human beings and compassionate, thoughtful leaders. During my time in Hugo, my group worked on a bat conservation project, creating standards for the harvesting of bat guano. No joke. That’s. In fact, our guidelines were officially adopted by the IUC and species survival commission.

As in any field, sometimes you get siloed into one specialty or find yourself competing instead of collaborating with your peers or that what you were taught in a textbook is not what you’re experiencing in the real world. Jeff, Andina created UCal to address these shortfalls and it continues to have lasting impact throughout the world for people and for what.[00:27:00]

Don’t forget to go to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive emails, shownotes action tips, and a free guide to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them, hit me up on Instagram and Facebook.

And let me know what actions you have been taking. Adopting. Just one habit can be a game changer, because imagine if a million people also adopted that, what difference for the world are you going to make?