[00:00:00] I’m Crystal DiMiceli, and welcome to the Forces for Nature show. Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you, as just one person, can’t really make a difference? Forces for Nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview someone who is working to make the world more sustainable and humane.

Join me in learning from them and get empowered to take action so that you too can become a force for nature.[00:00:45] 

This whole season was recorded live in person at the EarthX Congress of Conferences this past April. EarthX was developed to bring together governments, business leaders, and a diverse array of attendees to cut across industry and political silos to bridge perspectives, leverage expertise, and foster multi partisan collaboration that drives progress towards environmental solutions.

It was an exciting event to be a part of. And I almost didn’t participate. I tell you all about it in the previous season intro episode. Today’s episode, however, is with the other podcast show that was also at the event, Conservation Connection, [00:01:30] hosted by Chance and Sarah Catherine Reuter. I can’t tell you how nice it was to meet other eco podcasters in person.

And how great it was to learn that they’re just so cool. They interviewed other speakers that I didn’t get a chance to talk to, so be sure to check out their show. Their EarthX season is so good. They specialize in science communication and it shows. In today’s discussion, we just chatted with each other, so you’ll hear the conversation going in different directions.

At one point, Chan starts talking about the four guiding principles of the conference. We end up going on a tangent, but I appreciated them so much that I wanted to spell them out [00:02:15] here. They were, one, no demons. You need to see the human, be the human. Be your best. Invite their best. No denial. You have to embrace the truth and know that it is complicated.

I first saw this as a pointing a finger at the denialists, but it goes both ways. You’ll see. 3. No excuses. Use the power you have. Don’t be the victim with an excuse. And four. No delays. Positive change for the environment must start now. There were also powerful terms of engagement and objectives, [00:03:00] but I won’t go into detail about those here.

I posted them on social if you want to take a look. In all, we had a fun conversation that really teed up the interviews we had for the rest of the week. And pay close attention, because there’s a little easter egg in here. I don’t know why it’s called that, but anyway, pay close attention for something that hints at something really big and really cool that’s about to happen.

In Apple Podcasts and Spotify, use the link to text me if you figure out what it is. I’m so excited about it.

I’m here today with Chance [00:03:45] and Sarah Catherine from the Conservation Connection podcast. We are at the EarthX conference this week together interviewing the participants and speakers and just learning so much. And I’m really excited to learn more about you guys in this moment. So thank you for joining me today.

Thank you, Crystal. This is super fun. We don’t get to hang out with podcasters very often, so like, seeing somebody else who’s part of our little tribe in person, face to face, is super fun for us. It’s super fun. And I’m, I’m excited because it’s going to be a different episode than I usually do. It’s just, we’re just going to chat about what we’re doing here and what we do in general.

And you guys have so much to bring to the table, so I [00:04:30] can’t wait to learn more. Yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it’s really fun. To find people that are doing the same thing as you do. I mean, we were listening to your episode with the fancy scientist where she interviewed you and it was like, we’ve done that.

We’ve, we, you know, I’ve had that experience. So it’s, you know, this kind of fun little synergy that pops up. Yeah. And to me, it’s so important that the more people that are doing the work that we’re doing. the better. For me, it’s not, like, I don’t feel competition. I’m like, yes, more people getting the word out.

Like, conservation is so important. The environment is so important. And so I just feel like we’re a team. Yeah, absolutely. We say often, community over [00:05:15] competition, right? So like, in the field of conservation, it’s been really nice to see, as our podcast Conservation Connection has grown since we started it in the beginning of 2019, is we’ve kind of experienced this progression of people being a little more standoffish about working with other groups and other people that are trying to accomplish the same thing.

But as we’ve come through the years, we see more and more of like, oh yeah, I’m working with. This person and they’re really great and I’m working with this team and these people over here are doing this and we’re doing this and this is how we all come together. And it’s, it’s so important because you can’t get the job done of anything really in life by yourself.

I don’t want to be responsible for being like the environmental podcast that everybody [00:06:00] listens to. I, I so don’t want that responsibility. So can you imagine? Yeah. So it’s good that we’re kind of dividing and conquering and working together for sure. And I feel like the sense of competition perhaps was born out of the need for grants.

Like we’re all trying to get funding to do the great work that we’re all trying to do. But really at the end of the day, if we’re able to do partnerships, what we accomplish is always going to be so much stronger. Yeah. I mean. I think that we could get a much larger grant if it was like, Oh, we have these six shows that are all doing this.

Working together than, yeah. You know, any of those individual shows would be able to get by themselves. We should definitely start talking about a network . I, yeah. Love it. I think that’s a [00:06:45] great idea. I love that. That’d be super fun. Yeah, absolutely. The listeners are hearing a new brainchild. Ooh, . You heard it here first.

People on Forces for Nature podcast. Ooh. It’s about to. to get good. It’s already good. I’m just kidding. I’m going to cut that out. Yeah. So you mentioned Conservation Connection, your podcast. Tell me more about the podcast, but also tell me more about what else you do within that umbrella. Yeah, absolutely.

So we have Conservation Connection, the podcast, like you said, but it is also the name of our nonprofit that we have. So for the listeners, we’re based in the U. S. specifically in Georgia. So we’re a non profit and everything kind of flows through our podcast. [00:07:30] So we do science communication workshops with colleges and universities.

We work with K through 12 schools to teach lessons to get students to understand. It’s outside and into nature and kind of a little more out of the books and on the worksheets and all of that, which is important too, but really getting that hands on interaction with nature is so important. I think part of why Chance and I both fell in love with the environment when we were so young.

Yeah, definitely. Just being outside and, and I oftentimes tell people that my job is to build relationships between people and their environment. Yeah. I want you to feel a personal relationship with the trees and the grass and the dirt and the bugs because until you [00:08:15] have that relationship, you’re not going to make changes, change your actions to protect them.

Right? So, yeah, so the show, in my opinion, our podcast is about building that relationship and along with that, learning about. The people protecting the planet and what they’re doing. You know, it’s very, very, very similar to forces for nature where it’s like, Hey, look at this cool person. Let’s amplify the work that they’re doing by telling people about it.

So that’s a lot of what we do with the show. And then we’ve got these workshops and all that sort of stuff. My favorite thing that we get to do is we work with some local students in Columbus, Georgia of just like. Hey, you’re five or six years old. Let’s get this group and just go walk along the Chattahoochee River or just go be outside because that’s, I mean, that’s really just for me personally, like that fills me up to get to work with [00:09:00] students in that way.

So lots of fun things. Same thing, like the work that I do is really very selfish at the end of the day. I know, right? Isn’t that so funny to say that? Cause it’s like people are like, oh, you’re saving the world. And it’s like, no, this is, this is for me. I get to sit and talk with scientists and, you know, change makers and Dr.

Sylvia Earle and like all of these amazing people. But I do think, you know, if you’re in a profession that is fulfilling to you, it probably does feel selfish, right? Like you’re like, oh, I love what I do. That’s good. Too much. Like, am I? Is that allowed? I don’t know. Is that allowed, right? Yeah, absolutely. So we’re here at EarthX together this week, and you guys have actually been here a number of times.

What do you think about this [00:09:45] platform? So I love EarthX. We’ve been here, we were here in 2019, we were gonna be here in 2020, but I think we can all guess that that did not happen, and then we were able to come back in 22, and now 24. And it is the wildest. Conference I think I’ve ever been to it is minute by minute changing and you’re just caught you have no idea who’s gonna walk around the corner I mean just some of the coolest people on the planet are here It is definitely an endurance a marathon because we’re getting episodes all week long Yeah, and it’s just I mean you today is day one And I’m exhausted and we walked up the stairs and we’re like, how are you and you’re like, oh I’m exhausted.

But a [00:10:30] good exhausted. Yeah. I mean, you don’t think of a, like a conference being, you know, exhausting, honestly. Like, you wouldn’t be like, Oh, they’re going to a conference. They’re probably going to like, have fun and go sit in some panels and then talk to some friends. But like, maybe that’s how it is for normal people attending a conference, but definitely when you’re recording a podcast.

I mean, you’re constantly on. Yeah. Honestly. And I’m writing notes like a madman. I have pages and it’s only day one. You’ll need another notebook for sure. I think so. But yeah, I mean, it’s such a cool opportunity to come out here and get to experience. All of the people from different sides, from different parts of the world, you know, it’s not only the U.

S., they have a huge delegation from Ukraine here for the conference, so, I [00:11:15] mean, it’s just people from everywhere. This being your first time here at EarthX, what are kind of your first impressions? I know you’ve, you’ve gotten thrown into something a little bit crazy and wild. Truthfully, when I first I was wondering if this was the place for me because I was afraid there’d be just latent greenwashing because the chemical industry is here and the petroleum industry is here and so many people that I don’t necessarily agree with are here.

There is a There’s a party going on outside, I don’t know if you can hear it. You may or may not be able to hear it. If you’re listening, EarthX is a party. And we’re here [00:12:00] doing serious work. Definitely. And do come next year because as I was doing a lot of introspection and learning more about EarthX, all of the players that are here are important.

Because we do really all have the same desires at the end of the day. We want a healthy planet for ourselves, for our families, for our children. We want things to be healthy. better. And so we all have this same end goal. We just have different ways of getting there. I think that what you just said about all the players that are here are important is such a poignant idea [00:12:45] because so often we fall into this category of like, only the people on my side of it are right and all the other side, we need to minimize their impact or their ability to do anything, right?

That’s kind of how we think about these things. That’s not true. And it’s not how things are going to play out. ultimately be effective. Every player is important. And that means oil companies are important and need to have a seat at the table when we’re talking about the future of the planet, right? If they’re not there, the solutions that we come up with at that table will never get adopted.

Because they are such an important part of that conversation. They need to be at the table. And they won’t be as strong, I think, at the end of the day. Yes, they’ll check all the [00:13:30] boxes I want them to check. But they’re not holistic. And really, if we want to make any progress in anything, we really need to be holistic and look at all sides and issues.

Yeah, absolutely. And so we were all sitting together, hanging out this morning at the opening session for ETHX. And one of the things that they unveiled this year are what they’re calling their four guiding principles for conversations happening at EarthX, where there is people from all aisles, different perspectives, sitting down to talk together.

And I was really captured by those. So just like really quick to read them. The first one was no demons, see the human, be the human, be your best and invite the best, right? So it’s, if you don’t see the person that [00:14:15] you’re talking to as a human. You will never care about their viewpoints, and they will never care about yours.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you’re just looking at them as the enemy, you, you have no motivation to be like, oh, we can work together. And they have no motivation to work with you, if that’s all you see them as, right? So no demons, no denial, which I loved, embrace the truth, know that it is complex. Right?

So, I think it’s very easy to, and I’m definitely guilty of being like, Uh, that doesn’t really fit how I wanted it to fit, so we’re just gonna ignore that inconvenient fact. But that’s not, that’s not how we work together, right? You have to embrace the truth. But the other side [00:15:00] of that is know that the truth is complex, and that an inconvenient fact is still the truth and needs to be incorporated into this worldview so that we’re not polarizing.

Yeah, well, it’s kind of like saying, like, my way is the only way, like, it’s just not true. There are so many ways to get to the right solution and the solution where we need to be. And it’s probably going to involve a few different ways. Yeah. Last week I was at the climate reality leadership training that’s led by Al Gore, and it’s a fascinating training.

It’s, it’s so rich and you have so many takeaways, but what was really interesting and totally unexpected, at least by me, was that during the training, there was a protest. [00:15:45] So John Podesta was on stage and a couple of climate activists started shouting at him and saying, he’s not doing enough. And, you know, they were very extreme.

Then they started singing to be louder than them. And it was an interesting thing to see because I, I respect that. And I believe that, you know, they have a role in the movement, but at the end of the day, it’s not. I don’t think, I, yes, I wish fossil fuels were cut off immediately, but in reality, if fossil fuels were cut off today, There would be a lot of problems.

There would be a lot of problems. Well, and it sounds like even being at that conference, he was probably there, like, [00:16:30] trying to talk about a way to move forward. Yeah, he was and you know, he’s he’s working within some very tight boundaries So for him to be able to make any progress and move forward he has to talk to the other side They he has to have a give and take It’s really funny because everybody’s seeing is sitting at this table has a background in animal husbandry And the one thing that we all know is that positive reinforcement is like the number one way to change behavior.

And what that means is positive. I’m introducing something to your environment. Reinforcement. It’s something that’s gonna encourage you to do that action again. Right? So think of it like giving a treat to [00:17:15] your dog when they sit. Makes them want to sit more in the future. The opposite of that Um, is punishment, positive punishment, introducing an, uh, an unpleasant stimulus, like hitting your dog when they don’t sit.

Okay. That doesn’t work. It, all it does is create all these avoidance behaviors where they’re trying to get away from you or avoid situations where you’re going to make them sit. So if you want to change behavior, you have to reward people when they come to the table, when, right? I mean, that’s, it’s, it boils down to very simple principles is just reinforce, reward the behavior that you want to see.

And it’s not easy. I mean, it’s very, very difficult when something’s being done that you just don’t agree with, but it’s necessary. [00:18:00] And something else they said this morning when they were talking about the new principles and guidelines, they brought up a data point saying that the extreme left and the extreme right are only, let’s say, 15 percent of the population, maybe each 15%, but there’s 70 percent of what they’re calling the silent majority.

So that means we have 70 percent of the population that we can work within to make the changes we want. It’s just, we need to learn how to be louder than the extreme 30%. Yeah, and that’s how it is, honestly. Within it, within anything controversial, you know, you see, all you [00:18:45] see is this is really important, this really matters, it should be this way, and then the other side saying this is terrible, this is awful, this should not be this way, where really the truth lies somewhere in between, honestly.

And it’s because. It doesn’t make a good soundbite to be like, Oh, I don’t know. It’s probably somewhere in between. It doesn’t encourage, it doesn’t sell ad spots. It doesn’t get people to show up for rallies. Oh, and, and what they were talking about today was that. The, the politicians, for example, actually get more money and donations when they use fear and this extreme, these extreme positions, which is so disappointing to hear.

Right. And it, it, it. Even if they don’t believe it themselves. [00:19:30] Right. And that’s, that’s the other part of it is that they also are trapped in this system where if they want to keep up, if they want to get elected and hold power. They have to have an extreme opinion. They have to play the game. And so we’re all kind of trapped in this system.

I don’t know. I think it’s hard to. We’re all constrained by the system. We’re not trapped by it, but it is the game that we’re playing right now, but we can break out of it by actively engaging sincerely and authentically with people who don’t hold the same opinions and, and seeing them as human. Not as a demon that’s trying to take away your way of life and just being willing to have a conversation With somebody who differs from you which I mean, [00:20:15] you know We’re we all definitely fall further left on the spectrum than right and one of the big big important Ideologies that we hear all the time is like diversity is important.

Diversity is important, but not if they don’t agree with me You know, right and so it’s You have to walk that walk, right? You have to find people that you don’t agree with and spend quality time with them. You don’t have to like them. You don’t have to be friends with them, but you do have to be able to work together because the world is made up of a lot of different types of people that all care about different things and you have to work with them.

And really, if you have those open discussions and communications, you’ll find that you’re not that different. Yes. That there’s so much more. Thank you so much. more. And I’ve [00:21:00] noticed that. So I, I’ve lived outside of the U S now for over 10 years. And it’s really interesting to get an international perspective of the U S and then come back to the U S and, and talk to people.

Cause I’m even starting to be like, I’ve been outside for so long that when I come back, I have these like preconceived notions. And I’m surprised when I sit down and have these conversations with people who I assume are. Gonna be completely different in their viewpoints and like, no, we really are aligning in everything.

And like we, we share values. We just have different ways of executing them. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I really sincerely believe that [00:21:45] at the end of the day, we all want the same thing. We just disagree on how to get there. Yeah. And if you can keep that in mind, it makes having conversations with quote unquote, the other side of the aisle.

So much easier because yeah, finding that common ground is so important and I mean that in more than just the environmental movement I mean that in basically every walk of life, every aspect of life is made so much more fun and so much better when you seek the common ground rather than seek the difference.

I did an interview earlier today with Jim Keyes, and he wrote a book about education and learning. And he told me a story. He was just at a conservative conference. And he was saying, like, if he brought up the word diversity, [00:22:30] or if he brought up DEI, they would have completely just shut down and not done it.

cared what he had to bring to the table and talk about. In his book, he, he talks about cultural literacy and he just put a different term on the same thing, but they were completely open to it. So it’s also framing and verbiage that we use that makes a difference. Yeah. It’s, it’s definitely knowing the audience that you’re talking to.

We do science communication workshops with colleges and universities as well. And the whole goal of that is teaching these young researchers who have a certain project they’re working on is here’s how you communicate it to someone who’s not a scientist. to someone who doesn’t [00:23:15] understand your work and why it’s important.

How, how do you relate it to just a general public audience? And it’s so important. Communication is just so important. Yes, it is so important. And I do want to talk about some of the people we will be communicating with this week. Some of the people you will have on your show and some I’ll have on mine.

Did, did you finish your list? No. Do you want to go back to it? But it’s okay, we’re gone. Okay. We’re well, well past that. I was like, we’re kind of like far away. So I don’t know if we want to come back. That’s why it’s called Loose Chat. Yeah. That’s the whole point. Okay, cool. So, who are you excited to talk to?

I’m going to go ahead and jump in here before you get to say it because I’m so excited to [00:24:00] announce that we got an interview with Dr. Sylvia Earle, who is Oh my god, that’s so amazing. Right? I’m still a little like shaky about it. Totally. It was. I wanted to hug her when I saw her, I was like, Oh my God, she’s Sylvia Earle.

And that was, yeah, that was such a cool episode, really, really cool interview. And I think we’re actually going to be releasing that one pretty soon. So that was obviously fantastic. Yeah. So for any listeners who do not know who Dr. Sylvia Earle is, she is sometimes known as her deepness. That is because she is an avid diver.

Her, her life basically consists of everything ocean and marine. And she has such a. history in this Ocean field and has made so many amazing discoveries [00:24:45] She was the first female chief scientist at NOAA in the 90s. She has been a National Geographic Explorer at large since 1998. I mean, she is truly, I throw this word around a lot, but she truly is one of the titans of ocean science.

I mean, like chills, like literally goosebumps talking about her. I asked her after the show if she still gets to dive as much as, to scuba dive as much as she would like to, and she said, She still gets to scuba dive, but not as much as she would like to these days. I know she’s, I mean, she was just at a conference in Greece literally last week.

So, she’s a very busy lady. Yeah. Yep. Who else did we get? So, we will also be interviewing Ivan Carter. He has a show [00:25:30] on EarthX TV called Defenders of the Wild. I believe he has a few other shows, but we’ll kind of be talking to him a little bit about that show and about his work. And Africa, working with the communities there, you know, I think a lot of what we’ve heard in the past is you go into a place and you’re like, Hey, you’re doing everything wrong.

Here’s how you can do it better. instead of truly working with that community. So a lot of his work now is working with communities, seeing the resources they have, the problems they have and saying, okay, how can we work together to make this better for you? How can we bring you an income? that serves your family, but also protects these amazing animals that are very well known in [00:26:15] Africa.

So that’ll be a really cool episode. I didn’t know that about him. I want to talk to him now. Yeah, absolutely. So Crystal, who are some of the really cool people that you will be interviewing and will be releasing episodes with? So I mentioned that I interviewed Jim Keyes, and that was a really interesting interview because we were able to talk about learning and how people have militant ignorance, which is being so set in what you think or what you think you think that you’re not willing to, to take in other points of view, even if they could enrich your own point of view.

And so we talked about how perhaps [00:27:00] conservationists and environmentalists could, as much as we think we’re doing good, we can be. I mean, I’ve caught myself today being like hearing somebody say something and starting to shut down and be like, nope, nope, nope, nope. The whole point today is to listen and like exercise those muscles.

And so speaking of that, I was starting to completely dismiss carbon capture as not a very viable, good option in climate change mitigation. So that is why I brought on Daniel Cardenas. Because I wanted to hear from his perspective why it is. And so that is another interesting conversation that [00:27:45] I had that, this, this whole week I want to talk to both sides of the aisle, because I want to see, I want to know what I don’t know.

I want to learn what I don’t know or however, That was good. Learn how I don’t know. I want to learn what I don’t know and, and start to really accept other points of view. I want to practice what I preach. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is the perfect place to do it, right? That’s kind of the whole intention of EarthX is to bring in people from literally every side of the aisle, every side in between the aisle, beside the aisle, whatever it is.

Anywhere in the stadium. Yeah, anywhere in the stadium, on the field, whatever. So, So, you really just kind of have your pick of [00:28:30] all of these different opinions, and like we said, everyone’s trying to get to the same place, it’s just how are we trying to do it. So this is a really cool place to do that. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I can’t wait to listen to the episodes that you guys are going to have coming out because they’re just going to compliment what I have coming out. And there’s just so many people here and we’re going to be able to cover like so much ground and I’m really excited to be working with you guys this week.

Yeah, we’re excited too. I think hopefully some of our audience, maybe some of our audience overlaps now, but if not hopefully even more overlap after these episodes come out and we’ll have some really cool stories to share. I Chance, Sarah, Catherine, I’m excited for what the next few days are going to be bringing us and I’m [00:29:15] so happy that we have been able to connect.

The work that you’re doing, I think, is incredibly important and exciting and fun. So thank you for all that you do. You’re making a difference. Thank you. You’re making a difference, Crystal. That’s what I wanted to say.

Aren’t those two so much fun? And I hope this sparked your curiosity about this season and you tune in. I’ll be kicking off each episode with some insights and experiences I had while at EarthX so that you can go on the journey with me. Let me know what you think by sending me a message through the link in your podcasting app.

Let’s keep the conversation going. Talk soon. [00:30:00] Don’t forget to go to forcesfornature. com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them.

Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at Becoming Forces for Nature and let me know what actions you have been taking. Adopting just one habit could be a game changer because imagine if a million people also adopted that. What difference for the world are you going to make today?