TB Final

[00:00:00] I’m crystal Ozzie Macelli and welcome to the forces for nature show. Uh, do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you as just one person can’t really make a difference forces for nature cuts through that negativity? In each episode, I interview somebody who’s doing great things for animals and the environment we talk through the problem they’re addressing the solution.

They have found what keeps them going. And we’ll leave you with practical action tips so that you too can become a force for [00:00:45] nature. Today’s guest is Tatio Bitterroots. He’s the director of the Dutch Caribbean nature Alliance and a strong advocate for sharks. He recently created the Caribbean shark coalition, which aims to foster collaboration among various stakeholders throughout this region to increase its capacity for protecting these vital species, their necessity to the ecosystem.

As an apex predator cannot be overstated with Tatio. Seeing the effects of their removal firsthand we’d discuss people’s sphere. The surprising way to tame a shark and how protection cannot be done. Piecemeal. Let’s dive in.

Hi, Ted [00:01:30] Zio. Thank you so much for joining me on forces for nature. It’s so great to have you. The pleasure is all mine. I’m very excited and looking forward to our chat together. Today. I want to talk about sharks. One of the most feared species out there let’s first address the sentiment. Although movies have greatly exaggerated their aggressiveness.

I did read a statistic recently that says shark attacks are on the rise, but shark related deaths are decreasing. Can you help to clarify? I don’t think that there is an increase in shark populations or increase in sharks frequent in coastal waters. Actually the opposite is the case. Sharks are under immense pressure globally from over fishing.

But what I do think is happening is [00:02:15] that as the human population is growing and as more people move towards the coast lines and more people are make use, of course areas, there’ll be inevitably some negative human shark interactions. That’s really what’s going on. Statistically, it’s still a very small chance that, that you can have a negative human shark interactions with some of the statistics out there when you’re more likely to get hit on the head by a falling coconut.

While you sit under a coconut tree on some tropical beach somewhere rather than gets nipped by a shark. Now you spend a lot of time in the water with sharks. Do you ever worry about being attacked? I never really worry. I mean, during a ware research, well, I mean, it’s not true that I never worry. I I’m very cautious.

[00:03:00] I think there is a misconception out there, especially fostered by some people on social media, by quote unquote influencers that sharks are these harmless creatures that can be petted and that you can touch et cetera, et cetera. But what I always tell people is that these are apex predators. These are animals.

That are at the very top of the food chain. They also have the equipment necessary to be able to function at the very top of the food chain and they can cause some serious, serious harm. If you don’t have a healthy respect for the animal, for what they’re capable of. Uh, there’ve been a few species actually that I’m a little bit more wary of than others.

Reef sharks, tiger sharks, hammerheads. I’ve never had the pleasure of being in the water with a great [00:03:45] wide, but I’m sure it’s the same. There are animals that we keep eye contact with and you’re aware of their presence and you don’t do anything too risky on the water and keep your hands to yourself. 99% of the time.

There’s nothing to worry about. The only species that makes me a little bit wary when they come around are bull sharks, bull sharks are these massive, chunky animals that when they come around, you can tell that they mean business. They also have the highest level of testosterone of any animal in the animal kingdom.

So they’re basically a hop top teenage boys that swimming through and trying to make its presence. So there’ve been a few times when I’ve been in the water in The Bahamas, for example, we’ve been doing work with hammerheads or even down here in the Eastern Caribbean, doing work with tigers or reef sharks, for [00:04:30] example, that a bull shark has come through and made its presence felt.

And that’s when I usually get a little bit cautious, I keep a little bit of an extra eye on the animal. And if I notice that it’s being a little bit too. Do inquisitive or wants to come and check me out more than two or three times. That’s usually when I call it and be like, all right, let’s give this animal that space and let’s reconvene somewhere else.

Or, or come back tomorrow or come up with another plan. They’re wild animals. And you need to have a healthy respect for them. It’s not as if you’re going to go to the Plains of Africa and try to jump on the back of a lion and right. It’s a row neither. So. That’s what I usually tell people. That’s a really good comparison actually.

Out of curiosity side, no question. Is it the bull shark or is it the tiger shark that could [00:05:15] go up bull sharks. They have a very demo tablet is. In a way that it allows them to swim up into freshwater ecosystems. I mean, not only estuaries, they’ve been found 1200 miles of the Mississippi river. Yeah. Some of the biggest bull sharks that I’ve ever been caught having caught in freshwater rivers in South Africa, for example, Also some highly brackish water ecosystems in Australia, some of the biggest bull sharks I’ve ever been called Lake Nicaragua, for example, in central America, which is a completely fresh body of water, has a healthy population of bull sharks.

So it’s quite unique in the sense that they’re able to venture into freshwater, freshwater ecosystems. So in that sense, they are, they’re quite interesting creatures. It’s funny, actually that you bring up Lake [00:06:00] Nicaragua because I was just the other night speaking with some Nicaraguan friends who told me that the shark population in the Lake has been decimated because of shark finning.

And so that leads into my next question. Where I want to say that shark numbers and populations have been declining drastically over the past years. And some primary culprits are them being fished for their meat, intentionally being caught as bycatch, unintentionally, and the inhumane practice of shark finning.

Can you explain what shark finning is and why it’s done? So, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Sharks are some of the most threatened and endangered species, not only in the [00:06:45] oceans, but generally speaking about the animal kingdom, some large shark species hammerheads, or Shanik white tips, make sharks, et cetera, et cetera.

Their population has declined by about 90% compared to just two decades ago. So in 20 years, their population has declined 90%, which is a quite drastic decline estimates range from 150 to 500 million sharks are caught yearly, and most of this catch is driven by the shark fin treated. Certain Asian cultures, shark fin soup, especially is seen as a status symbol as an aphrodisiac.

Uh, it’s used a lot in, in weddings and it has this connotation of being a foreign remedy that will increase fertility, et cetera, et cetera, which of [00:07:30] course, none of this is ever based in any real fact or any real scientific data. How is it done? Unfortunately, for the show? The way that the finning often happens is that the shark is Scott.

Whether intentionally or not, the defense are cut off of the shark while the animal is still alive. And then the animal is just chucked overboard. While it is still alive without fins. Yeah. Without fins. The problem with that is aside from just cutting the fin off of a live animal and throwing it back overboard is that the majority of the species of sharks actually need to be able to swim, to be able to pump water over their gills.

So what essentially happens if you’ve got their fins off? Which is already horrible and you drop them overboard. They’re unable to erase oxygen over their [00:08:15] gills, which you do through swimming, and then they’ll inevitably drawn. So it’s really a horrible practice. Luckily there’s quite a bit of a movement globally to stand the shark fin tree, but we still have a long way to go.

Where would one begin? It’s not only targeting fisheries. I mean, oftentimes shark finning happens in areas where poverty is an issue. Some fishermen go out the efficient areas that are heavily overfished. They come across a shark and then didn’t know that they can make a hundred, hundred and 50 bucks on the market for their shark fins.

So it’s also an issue that has to be addressed in terms of engaging local fishing communities. Global mechanisms to protect the species has to be put in place. And also industrial fisheries. I mean, for example, Spain is one of the largest industrial shark [00:09:00] fishing countries on earth, and it’s quite difficult to be able to convince the Spanish government and also the European union to put some significant cap on the amount of sharks that are able to be caught.

So it has really a concerted effort that we need to do in order to protect the species. But yeah, the shark finning is really what drives such a steep decline in population numbers globally, especially for tropical sharks. And it’s legal. It’s a legal practice in many countries, still any countries, it’s an illegal practice, but in many countries it’s also illegal practice.

So there has to be a global push to ensure that there are mechanisms in place to protect the species. Of course, in some countries it’s a challenge that some countries, for example, have in their law, that when you land a shark in a fish market, or if the shark. [00:09:45] Comes off of the board, the things have to be attached.

And the wording of that legislation says the fin has to be attached to the animal. It doesn’t say the fin has to be. Naturally attached to the animals. So what you see in a lot of fish markets is you have shark fins that are tied with a piece of rope to the shark. And then once they land they’re conformed with the laws of their respective country, they pass the fisheries inspection.

And then to just untied the fin off of the animal, Chuck arc arc was silver board, and then they sell the films that premium ads, the market. So one of the things that we’re working on, not only here in the Caribbean, but also globally. Is to really ensure that proper legislation in terms of international treaties, in terms of international mechanisms, lobbying with national governments, to ensure that while we recognize that [00:10:30] fisheries and having an available source of protein for populations is important, it’s also important to have a sustainable fishery for the species.

So we’re working on it, but yeah, some of those things are some of the craziness that we have to deal with in terms of some of our policy and then no. Why, why wouldn’t they just keep the whole shark? I mean, people do eat shark, right? Some species of sharks have a high level of uric acid in their meat. So the meat is actually not palatable or not fit for consumption.

Some species are make, or shark, for example, is a species that is eating quite widely, a certain species of dark fish as well. But some species of shark they’re not caught for anything else, but their fins. So yeah, they. On side of things off of the [00:11:15] animal, and then Chuck, the shark overboard and some other things that premium is it’s actually quite sad to see.

And I’ve been in the water right after an animal has been finned and chucked overboard. And you can literally see the animal gasping trying to save itself from droning and then eventually the animal just drums. So it’s quite a sad, sad sight disease. Oh, that must be so difficult to witness. Now, why should we care if sharks are removed from the ecosystem?

That’s a question that I often get. I mean, people are like, yes, but they’re dangerous. And so who cares, et cetera, et cetera. And what I tell people is that they are a apex predator at the top of the food chain and they keep the ocean ecosystem in balance. For example, here in the Caribbean, you have sharks [00:12:00] that eat snappers, snappers that eat, let’s say Sergeant majors, and you remove the sharks out of the ecosystem.

All of a sudden you get an explosion of snappers. Which people might think is a good thing, but then eventually those snappers will eat all of the Sergeant majors, which take the algae off of the coral reefs. And then there’s an algal bloom on the Carla reef. Then the coral reef dies. And then there’s no habitat for the snappers and then you have a complete ecosystem collapse.

So it’s really a specific function that these apex predators fulfilled within the ecosystem. And if you remove that Keystone species, then you’ll have a negative cascading effect on the ecosystem. And, and you can see it in many, especially Caribbean countries. I’ve spent a lot of time in Jamaica doing research into the coral reefs of Jamaica.

And Jamaica is one [00:12:45] of those places where you see that the sharks have been completely fished out in the course of waters. And one of the things that that has resulted in is instead of Carl dominating the recent Jamaica, you have outdoor dominated reefs that are essentially non-functioning ecosystems.

So it’s critical that these apex predators remain in place to maintain that healthy ecosystem function. And of course I’m an ecologist. So I would like to see nature being placed for nature’s sake. But it’s also beneficial to the economies of respective, you know, I’m from the Caribbean. So I talk about most of the things that I discussed, I take from the Caribbean perspective.

So it’s very critical for Island nations here in the Caribbean to maintain healthy ocean ecosystems and sharks play an integral part in maintaining that [00:13:30] healthy ocean ecosystem. So what are you doing to protect them? Do quite a bit in the Dutch Caribbean, I live in Panera and working one year as a director of the dusk Caribbean nature lines.

But I’m currently in St. Martin where I used to work previously managing the protected area here. So one of the first things that we did is we saw that there was a rapid decline in the shark population. I mean, these were animals that I knew since I was 13, 14 years old. And then all of a sudden they just disappeared.

So we made an appeal. Quite early on in my career here in San Martin in 2011, we did a study where we actually placed a dollar value on a live shark, which was 150 by us dollars at market. Whereas the, to maintain the animal, if you maintain a healthy population [00:14:15] in its natural state, they can bring into about $150,000 to the economy and that together with showing the importance that the animal has on the ecosystem.

We were able to approach the government of San Martin at the time and ask for protection for the species, which was granted. So we were able to protect the species first on St. Martin. And then since that happened, we started our research. We did abrupt surveys, which are essentially baited video cameras that we drop into water to get an idea of a population of that animals that we can find around the region.

Then we went onto satellite tagging and tracking the animals as they migrate to the Caribbean. And sort of with that data, we were able to also get some initial funding to have a wider Caribbean program. [00:15:00] So we involve the rest of the Dutch Caribbean. So save us into Eustatius Caruso, Ruben, and Bonaire.

And we did a wide scale conservation project for sharks in the Dutch Caribbean. This was done through scientific research through policy, but one of the most important components of that project was education and outreach. We made sure that we went into the schools, that we had public lectures, that we had information evenings to also inform the public of what we were doing.

That it isn’t unmold. That should not be fair. That should be respected, but not be fair. And with that data, we were able to get the sharks protected throughout the Dutch Caribbean. In the sanctuary was one of the highlights of my career. W we’re able to do that. But quite soon, we started to [00:15:45] identify that it’s not as if a large tiger shark that’d be tagged on some margin.

It’s going to be like, I prefer not to go to any of the neighboring islands because I’m safe and sit Martin and they migrate throughout the whole Caribbean. So two years now almost partnered with our partner organization. We need the waves. And we need the waves together with, with the Dutch Caribbean nature lights.

We recently launched the Caribbean shark coalition of NGOs, governments, and researchers, scientists, academic institutions, et cetera, et cetera, bringing everyone together to give really a bottom up grassroots support for shark conservation work throughout the waiter. White and Caribbean. So not only the Dutch, Caribbean butts, everywhere from The Bahamas, straight down to Trinidad up to now, we have about 40 [00:16:30] entities joining the coalition, whether they’re individuals or.

Research institutions, et cetera, et cetera. And the hope is to really put in place large scale Marine protected areas in the, in the wider Caribbean region to protect the animals, to their reach and sharks that have been tagged in The Bahamas have been fallen off of the course of New York and sharks that we’ve tagged here on San Martin or on the stable bank meet.

Able to follow their migration all the way to the Northern coast of Venezuela. We’re not only trying to protect the species, but we’re also using the migration of the animal to show that when you talk about the Caribbean, it’s really one large Marine ecosystem that has to be protected. And we use sharks to show that there’s connectivity between all of the islands in the Caribbean and not only just.

Sort of these [00:17:15] artificial political nation States that have been put together by humans. So, yeah, we’re very excited right after the spas podcast, I leave to the yeah. Turks and Caicos islands to, to assist with some shark tagging work there together with the folks from beneath the waves, we have an expedition on the saber banquet and we’re going to be tracking pregnant tag sharks.

We will be ultrasounding them, taking blood samples for hormone analysis, et cetera, et cetera. So we’re really trying to have a wider Caribbean. Project on protecting the species and highlighting again, that they should be respected, but that, that they’re not an animal to be fared or called or disregarded because they do play a very critical role in the ecosystem of our Caribbean sea.

I know that you just launched this new initiative. Do [00:18:00] you see yourselves going beyond the Caribbean to include, like you were saying, sharks can go up to New York and down to Venezuela to just include larger areas and more countries. The initial idea for us is to really focus on the Caribbean. But we would like to see similar initiatives like this happening in other regions as well.

The United States has a American melasma Bronx society, for example. So the idea is to really share information, share data, collaborate. I mean, collaboration is really key. It’s something that we’re really focused on. They are experts in their field, but local knowledge is also critically important. So it’s important to bring together not only scientists, not only policymakers.

But also fishers and the diving industry to really have a joint collaborative [00:18:45] push to protect these animals. So we definitely want to collaborate with North America, South America, even Europe and Africa, because some of these animals do migrate across entire ocean basins. We are excited about where we can take the, the Caribbean shark coalition.

Now, how do you catch a tiger shark to do an ultrasound on it? So, so it’s actually a method called drum lining. The name comes from putting drums in the water that have a long line attached to it with a baited hook. So we use a weight on the water that we have a line attached to. There’s a brewery attached to that line.

And I think 30 or 40 centimeters from the surface or 30 or 40 centimeters from the bottom. Uh, of the ocean floor, depending on the species, we put a bait and [00:19:30] hook, and then we check the line every hour, hour, and a half. And if you have an animal underlay, we bring it to the side of the boat. We put a tail rope on to security animal, uh, and then we start a little workup.

Uh, what’s interesting about many species of sharks is if you flip them upside down, they go into a state called tonic inability. Basically they pass out. So when you flip them upside down the electrical receptors that it has all along his buddy and in its nose tend to short circuit and you can just see them completely relaxed.

And when that happens. Yeah. We take our time, especially on a tiger shark because they’re very robust and strong animals. We take our time to ultrasound it using a basic ultrasound machine that is used for animals that we take [00:20:15] blood. We insert a visual tag. Sometimes we attach a satellite tag to its friends.

Right. We can track the animal in real time. As it moves through its migratory pattern. So yeah, it’s usually takes about, depending on what we’re doing anywhere from five to five minutes to half an hour, we continuously check to see how healthy the animal is doing. If it’s responding, if it’s in distress in any way.

And then when we’re done, we cut the hole loose. We use high carbon hooks. So even if we are not able to get the hook out completely, they’ll rust out within a few months, we give the animal a push. If the animal. Hasn’t woken up yet from it it’s anesthesia, which is it’s tonic immobility. When you flip them upside down, oftentimes you will get in the [00:21:00] water with them.

You will actually physically swim them so that they can get the deals back pumping and then give it a push and then the animal swims off. So that’s, that’s how we tag tiger sharks. And sometimes it can be intense sometimes. You know, there’ve been times when. And typical jaws, the movie style, we call it a tiger shark on the CBRE bank.

And it pulled down a massive fender that we attached to the top line. And we were like, there’s no way I can pull it down. Two. We put two on there and it pulled down too. And then we put another one on there and pull down those three. So they weren’t times when I have said, I think we need a bigger board guys, but then yeah.

I mean, that’s usually how it goes and they’re actually quite easy animals to work with despite their size. I mean, a 13 foot tiger can be a. About two meters, two and a half meters in [00:21:45] girth. So it gets intense, but yeah, it’s an awesome feeling to be physically taking scientific data off of such a massive animal.

So you reel them in and then once they’re close enough to the boat, you’re able to flip them over and they, they stay in the water. Yeah. So, so we don’t take them out of the water at all. I mean, some researchers take big. Animals later out of the water. I don’t, I’m not comfortable with that. I mean, it’s a huge animal.

It’s used to being in water where there is no way pushing down on it, but then all of a sudden to bring it out of the water, all the pressure on its organs. It’s not something that we want to put the animal through, so we catch it. So usually it’s my job to bring the animal. Close to the board. We call it walking the dog.

Usually it goes [00:22:30] back and forth, back and forth. And then once we have it in a good position that we usually work up a very small boat. So there’s usually a team where I have the animal controlling the business center. The head of the animal is usually a team on the back of the boat that gets the tail rope on.

Once the tail rope on, we attach it to a cleat on the side of the boat, and then I would usually attach it to the cleans in the front of the boat, if it’s a big animal. And then yeah, we let, let it relax. We catch our breath and then we flip it upside down. It goes into tonic. And then the scientific workup can start.

And I assume the boat must be moving continuously in order for the animal to get the work. No. So there are two ways that sharks oxygen near themselves. One is Ram ventilation Ram ventilation. [00:23:15] It’s in the name. It’s where they have to swim in order to force the water through their gills, to oxygen in their blood.

And the other method is pumping. So some sharks can actually actively pump their gills. To force the water over their gills, into their bloodstream. And tigers are very, you know, tough animals and they’re able to pump water over their own gills. So you can have a tiger shark for an hour or two on the side of your boat, which we never do because you don’t want to stress the animal out later.

But if you can have a tiger shark for quite some time on the side of your boat, without the boat, really moving up to do your scientific workup. So we usually don’t have the boats in gear while we take data off of the animal. She’s like hammerheads are early in the podcast. I talked about this, this uric acid that can [00:24:00] lactic acid that can build up in the muscle tissue, which makes it unpalatable to eat.

But it also causes a certain species that are quite sensitive to go stiff and then they can drop the ocean bottom and they can draw because they’re so stiff that they’re unable to swim because they got stressed out and the lactic acid has affected their muscles. Certain species like hammerheads. If we catch a hammerhead, we take length measurements.

We might take a genetic sample. We might attach a visual tag, but we really want to get the animal off of the line. And in the water swimming within five minutes or us, it is a risk that we lose the animal. And as research is one of the things that we definitely don’t want to do is number one, get bit.

And then number two, cause any harm to the animal while we’re trying to take research, that’ll contribute to its [00:24:45] conservation. So we’re very aware of dependent on the species and when we’re tagging them. But usually whoever’s on the head, as we say. So whoever’s. Controlling the business end of the animal.

They’re also checking to see how it’s doing. If it’s responding. Well, certain species of sharks, they will get blood sheets. You’ll see blockchains appear on it. Scan reef sharks, for example, and then it’s time to start to do the process of releasing it. But yeah, tiger sharks. They’re my favorite animal to work with.

They’re very easy. They initially they. Trash around a little bit, but then usually they stop, which is a good thing. Cause if you got a 15 foot pissed off tiger shark thrashing around on the side of a 20 foot boat, it’s sometimes a bit hairy, but they’re usually quite easy animals to work with. No sharks.

On the other hand, whenever we see a [00:25:30] nurse shark, we do a collective groan because they are so difficult to work with, but. Yeah, no, I’m a diver as well. All right. Nurse sharks, like if you see a nurse shark, aren’t they like the puppy dogs or am I confusing? So you see a nurse shark in the water and they’re the most relaxed, chilled out animal that, that you can experience.

Usually they’re on the bottom. They don’t even move. But man, when you pull up a nurse shark and you try to bring it to the side of the boat to, to get data off of this, spin the thrash, the spit water at you, they’re just generally not co-operative and their skin is also. Tough just to get a visual tag and you really have to, to work hard at it, but, [00:26:15] uh, they’re all beautiful to me, but if I had to choose, I would say no to no sharks and you have to maybe have to tag them, especially after alarm tagging data.

And you’ve had a couple of 10 foot plus tigers that you’ve had to tag. And then all of a sudden, you, you pull up a 12 foot nurse shark. You can hear the target team on board, collectively grown, but you gotta do what you gotta do. You gotta do what you gotta do. So do you have a story about a moment when you said to yourself, this, this is why I do it a proud moment or a successful story?

Yeah. I mean, I was born and raised on St. Martin. I, like I said, from a little kid, I was in the water. We had this legislation in place to protect the animal. I spend time with grief [00:27:00] sharks and nurse sharks, but you will never see a tiger shark. So tiger sharks would, would just not. They’re very skittish. I did not use to divers.

They will not show up so I can remember we did the beta video cameras and using the beta video cameras. We were able to determine, okay, we do have tiger sharks in our waters, but then, you know, being out there and not knowing. If we will actually catch one to two physically tag on sit Martin, and it was two or three days where we had a scrum date, which means that we didn’t get anything at all, not even a nurse shark, which at that point I would have been happy to have another line.

And it was a typical story was our last time day, the sun was setting and all of a sudden we just see. The boy being completely submerged as we’re monitoring the board up to it. [00:27:45] And then when we pulled the line up, we saw a 12 foot tiger shark, the first one ever tagged in the Dutch Caribbean. And that was really, you know, a good thing.

I was sweating so hard and wet from board spray because I was shedding tears out of pure joy. And then recently the end of April. It was the first time that we were able to record a pregnant shark on San Martin. So again, it was a typical story. We had Dr. Austin Gallagher from beneath the waves on board with us Sammy Catan, who is an excellent filmmaker on board with us.

It was the last day, the last hour, before sunset, before we called it, we had two or three days without catching anything. And then all of a sudden we call it a pretty big tag, a shark that we ultrasounded it. And then we found that it was carrying pops. So that was another moment when everything. All the stress of a week of [00:28:30] doing tagging and not being very successful.

And then the last it’s always like that. The last minute of the last day, all of a sudden everything comes together and we were able to do achieve our research goals. So I think those were the two moments where we were exhausted. We can’t wait. To take a shower. Cause we smelled like tuna blood, but we were, we were also very happy high fives going around, tears being shed big smiles as we pulled into the dock.

So it’s yeah. It’s an awesome feeling. What would you say to a person when they tell you they’re afraid of sharks? I mean the first thing that many people say, Oh, you shouldn’t be afraid, but I was like, no, I mean, I helped you. Respect is important when you deal with animals like that, what you should not be [00:29:15] is.

Afraid to the point where either you don’t go to the beach or you don’t want to go swimming in the ocean or you support wide-scale slaughter or shots, just because of the odd founded fear. Statistically, it’s very rare to even have an encounter with a shark, unless you actively go look for that encounter again, apex predators, and everyone should have a healthy respect for them, but it’s not an animal that should stop you from enjoying the ocean on the contrary.

I mean, it should be part of the fascination of. Of being in an environment that is not home to humans that is home to these animals and realizing that it’s. Part of, of our natural environment to have these animals in the ocean for me. And I read also statistics that new Yorkers buy more people every [00:30:00] year, then sharks do so people should just keep that in mind.

The next time they go to take a bite out of the big Apple, if you’re really worried about having a negative interaction with sharks, and there are a few things that you can do. I mean, if you’re an area. New Smyrna beach or cocoa beach in Florida during the black tip migratory season, for example, stay close to shore.

Don’t swim during dusk and Dawn, which are the peak times of the species exhibits, their predatory behavior. Don’t swim alone. If you’re assuming when your dog makes sure that the dog also stays close to shore. So, I mean, there’s a few things that you can do if you’re really, really worried, but again, These are fascinating creatures.

They are mysterious. They support the whole ocean ecosystem. So they deserve our respect, but definitely not [00:30:45] any ungrounded or any unwarranted fear at all. So I love to leave the listener with things that they can do themselves from wherever they are. And today I would like to divide it between listeners who are diverse or.

Or even want to do some shark tourism, and then listeners in general, let’s start with the divers or people interested in shark tourism. How can they help to protect sharks? Sure. I mean, shark tourism. It’s a very important conservation tool. Not only do people get the opportunity to spend time in the water with the animal, but it also contributes to local economies in The Bahamas.

They get millions and [00:31:30] millions of dollars just because of the shark diving tourism. On the other hand, it has to be done by a reputable and a responsible operator. Oftentimes you have these. Fly by night shark feeding operators that cause more harm than good, that caused an attack to happen, for example, or cause a disruption in the sharks feeding behavior.

So I, my advice usually to divers is to do your research. There’s. Enough resources available online. That’ll show you who the responsible shark diving operators are in whatever destination that you go to and make sure that it’s reputable, make sure that they are certified, that they have their safety protocols in place, et cetera, et cetera.

If you’re really interested, there’s some awesome resources out there. I am going to shamelessly plug the Caribbean [00:32:15] shark coalition as a resource to visit and just Google Caribbean shark coalition. And we’ll take you right to, to the website. The majority of divers are certified through Patty. Patty aware also has an excellent shark conservation program and don’t support the Curio market, which is a big deal.

I mean, some places they sell necklaces with shark teeth are shark. Jaws are shark, leather goods. Please don’t support them. If you want to have a souvenir, or if you want to have a shark tooth on a necklace, which I also have. Get a fossilized shark tooth, which are available everywhere and you can get a fossilized shark to form a shark.

That’s a couple million years old, and I can guarantee you that it wasn’t killed a few weeks ago just for it’s for a shark teeth are as jaws. So that’s what I usually would tell the folks that [00:33:00] spend time or that want to spend time in the water with these animals. Just real quick. So for example, when I’m doing research, trying to find a reputable company, are there some red flags to look for?

Like, let’s say if TripAdvisor, somebody says I was able to swim right next to the whale shark, or I could touch the whale, shark, those type of things you want to you, you know, they are not good. Yeah, definitely. Those are definitely red flags. I mean, and you hit the nail on the head. There are some places in the Philippines where they have been throwing fishermen in the water for people to be able to swim in whale sharks.

And it has. Made the whale sharks completely dependent on that activity for their food source. They’re not interested in feeding themselves anymore, which also makes them [00:33:45] vulnerable to fishing pressure. I mean, people know that these animals frequent that area because they’re being fed. So they know that that’s the area where they should go.

If they want to fish these animals out. Track records in terms of people being bitten, safety protocols. If you find a reputable shark diving company, they should have their protocols in place. What is the load? What is not allowed, how they feed the animal. I mean, if you were to go shark diving company, they just present very little food to the animal.

Every time they have a shark feed so that the animal doesn’t become used to humans, hand feeding them, instead of them actively. Exhibiting their natural behavior. So those are, yeah, the red flags that I would definitely recommend that they look at it. And just, you know, if you’ve never heard about a shark diving company before, or, you know, it doesn’t have a review on [00:34:30] TripAdvisor, or if you pay $20 for a shark dive while the standard is about 85 to 90 bucks, then that is not someone you want to get into the water with.

Not only for the animal’s sake, but I can guarantee you for your own sake as well. That’s really good advice. And I’m going to make a list of all of this and put it in the show notes for people to refer to and for myself, because I like to dive. So I want to remember all of that. Now, what about the general listener?

Do you have any advice for how a general listener can help them? Yeah, sure. If you’re not a diver, but you’re interested in a plight of sharks. I mean, I call it a plate because you know, 500 million animals being fished out of the ocean every years is quite a bit, they were excellent resources out there or Shyanna has excellent shark [00:35:15] resources, Patty aware again, Caribbean shark coalition website beneath the waves website.

Excellent shark information. The shark project also has excellent shark information. And yeah, realized that these animals are under such significant pressure, that they’re some of the most endangered animals, not only in the ocean, but also generally speaking and educate yourself, realize that these are animals in their own natural environment.

Don’t order shark, fin soup, or any shark related products, shark cartilage, for example, which people think is a. Cure all for arthritis, for example, and there’s no scientific data to support that same it’s shark oil. Certain fish oils are also the Omega three fish oil that was [00:36:00] sold that at health food stores, as a supplement, they usually contain shark liver, which is something that puts immense pressure on the sharks.

Consuming shark meats and shark meat can be high in heavy metals, mercury, especially. So just avoid eating them as well. It’s generally a good idea. In seafood. The Monterey Bay aquarium has an excellent resource to show what are the types of sustainable seafoods that you should eat and that you should avoid?

Of course, sharks are on the avoid list. These type of little things and just general responsible environmental behavior, reducing plastic consumption, calling for your political leadership and people in government to enact conservation rules, not only shark conservation rules, but generally ocean conservation and ocean good [00:36:45] governance legislation.

These type of things, not only contribute to the conservation of the species, but to the health of our oceans in general. So. That’s usually what I tell folks when they ask me what they can do. And if you have the means to do it, donate to some of the excellent organizations out there that have folks in the field that especially do education and outreach, because as scientists, we often focus on doing the research, but education and outreach is also a critical part of ensuring that the species is protected efficiently.

So yeah, that would be my Tatio. This has been really interesting and exciting. Thank you so much for all that you do. You’re making a difference. I appreciate that. Thank you. You imagine trying to flip [00:37:30] over an angry 15 foot tiger shark. I think it’s needless to say that  is dedicated to his cause. And thank goodness he is sharks have been around since before the dinosaurs, but it could be us humans that wipe them off this planet.

Having been in the water with sharks myself. My experience says that they really want nothing to do with us. In fact, many attacks are either cases of mistaken identity. For example, from below a person paddling on a surf board, looks an awful lot like a tasty sea lion or someone just doing something stupid.

Regardless. I can understand that people might still have a fear of them. The important thing is to recognize and respect the value that they bring to the world and [00:38:15] support the means to protect them. Don’t forget to go to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive email show notes, action tips, and a free guide to help you start taking practical actions today.

Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them, hit me up on Instagram and Facebook and let me know what actions you have been taking. Adopting just one habit can be a game changer because imagine if a million people also adopted that, what difference for the world are you going to make today? [00:39:00] .