Crystal: [00:00:00] I’m Crystal DiMIceli and welcome to the Forces for Nature show. Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you, as just one person, can’t really make a difference? Forces for Nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview someone who is working to make the world more sustainable and humane.

Join me in learning from them and get empowered to take action so that you too can become a force for nature.

Welcome to another episode of the [00:00:45] Forces for Nature EarthX Conference Series, where I bring you behind the scenes of my experiences during that week and up close and personal with some of the incredible presenters. If you recall back to the season’s first episode, I promised that when I decided to go to EarthX, I would keep an eye out for greenwashing and call it out when I could.

For those who may not know what greenwashing is, it is the practice of claiming that a product or a company or a practice is environmentally friendly or sustainable, when it really isn’t. I could do a whole episode about it because it could range from just being vague or omitting certain info to full out falsities.

Being at an [00:01:30] environmental conference that was being attended by players such as fossil fuel and chemical company employees made me wonder if their presence was just to put up the appearance that they cared about sustainability, but were just wolves in sheep’s clothing. Some might argue that Absolutely, yes, that was the case.

Though from what I saw, for the most part, I found most people seemed to be genuine. I bring up greenwashing because we talk about it at one point in this episode. I’ll explain. In the last episode, I spoke with Daniel Cardenas about carbon capture, which is using technology to capture and store carbon.

Today we’re shifting gears and [00:02:15] exploring a whole other approach to fighting climate change that harnesses the power of nature itself. Jim Blackburn is the CEO of bCarbon, a carbon registry with a mission to work with landowners to capture carbon naturally. His work is all about using nature based solutions to pull carbon dioxide out of the air and store it in the land itself.

Think forests, prairies, wetlands. These environments already have natural storage abilities. bCarbon aims to pay landowners to maintain and expand this storage capacity. Using the planet’s own cycles to lock carbon away in plants and soil. B Carbon operates in what’s called [00:03:00] the Voluntary Carbon Market.

This market lets companies, and even individuals, buy carbon credits to offset their own emissions. Unlike regulated carbon markets, like those in EU that are mandated by the government, the Voluntary Market is driven by private sector demand. By purchasing credits, businesses essentially can balance out their emissions by paying landowners to manage their lands in ways that trap more carbon, for example, by restoring prairies or conserving forests.

But this market can have its challenges. One big critique is that it lacks tight regulation, and so the quality of [00:03:45] credits can vary. There’s a concern about greenwashing in two ways. One, either that the carbon credits company isn’t really doing a good job in ensuring that what they are crediting is actually reducing emissions.

And two, Companies might buy carbon credits to offset their emissions, claiming sustainability, but they might not be trying to reduce their overall emissions. In my opinion, companies should reduce as much as possible. They will then eventually get to a point where they just can’t avoid some emissions.

Same with individuals. And that’s where carbon credits should come in. We can pay to [00:04:30] avoid or store this unavoidable carbon. And doing it naturally is my preferred way. Jim addresses this issue head on, explaining how bCarbon prioritizes rigorous measurement and transparency. For instance, they use blockchain technology to track each credit and prevent double counting.

This way, buyers can feel confident their contributions are truly storing carbon. In our conversation, Jim also shares his vision for how nature based solutions can address climate change while providing added benefits, like protecting biodiversity, conserving water, and creating sustainable income for landowners.

It really sounds like a win, win, [00:05:15] win to me. Let me know what you think after listening.

Hi, Jim. Thank you so much for joining me today. Oh, you bet Crystal. So I’m excited to talk today here at EarthX about the panel that you’re going to be a part of, which is about biomimicry and circular economy, and specifically more about your company, B Carbon. Can you tell me a little bit about B Carbon?

Jim: Sure. B Carbon is a. Carbon registry, which means that we, uh, create protocols or rules about how we will evaluate pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and storing it in nature or perhaps in other types of [00:06:00] situations, but mainly we’re nature based and we want to basically pay landowners. For storing carbon and then selling these credits to those that are emitting carbon and trying to create a system over a long term that basically supports the circular economy of the earth, which is we have a natural carbon cycle where emissions go up in the air as carbon dioxide.

And come back down as carbon dioxide and are transformed by photosynthesis into carbon. And then it lives, you know, we have plants that live, we have trees that live, we have animals that live. And then they die, turn into carbon dioxide, and it goes back to the atmosphere. And that’s the [00:06:45] circular economy of nature.

And I want to try to mimic that with a human economy that has earth at its center.

Crystal: So for someone who doesn’t exactly know what a nature based solution of carbon sequestration looks like, how would that work? So you said, um, you work with landowners.

Jim: Correct. And first of all, just to start out with, a forest is a nature based carbon solution. I mean, It’s been happening for a long time.

Crystal: The trees take the carbon dioxide out of the air. The trees take

Jim: the carbon dioxide out of the air. Prairies, plants have, native prairies have 10 15 foot deep root systems. And so the carbon dioxide turns into carbohydrate, goes into the roots and then sugars go out. And that’s [00:07:30] what keeps all your soil organisms alive.

So there’s a whole carbon cycle based on photosynthesis. And then when things die, the carbon goes back up into the atmosphere, so we have, in nature, a carbon cycle. We humans have put that out of balance with, uh, hydrocarbon emissions, burning fuels, things like that. Our economy is sort of out of sync with that natural system, and so a lot of what we’re about is trying to bring the human economy back into sync with nature’s economy.

Crystal: So how do you work with landowners? Do you have them protect a certain piece of land? What does it look like in practice?

Jim: In practice, first of all, we have to measure. [00:08:15] Measurement is probably the centerpiece of what we’re doing because we want to prove that we’re actually adding carbon. And we believe that there are things that can be done by the landowners that will increase the amount of carbon.

But if we don’t measure, we don’t know where we start from. So, Our whole system is based on measurement, so we go out and do soil sampling to begin with, and we do a measurement of the size of the trees, and then come back five years later, measure the soil again, and then the increase is what we basically certify as a carbon credit.

Crystal asks ?

Jim: You are buying a contractual representation. That one carbon was accumulated, was stored, and two, it will remain in the Soil or in the forest for a [00:09:00] period of time, we’re looking to ensure 15 to 20 years with each transaction. And we feel that if we can establish a market, the landowners will keep participating for quite a long time.

I mean, the idea of being paid to store carbon is sort of like growing potatoes. And if the market is solid, these landowners will Grow these carbons, uh, credits, and grow the carbon stock, uh, for decades to come. But we believe in the market in that sense, and that’s a little different from a lot of the other registries that are out there.

Um, our registry came out of the Baker Institute at Rice University, and is really based on kind of working with private landowners on the Texas [00:09:45] coast, and kind of understanding kind of where their heads are. And they’re very interested in maintaining their ranches, their, uh, natural areas. But they also need cash flow.

And, frankly, cattle ranching doesn’t generate a huge amount of cash flow. And a lot of the Uh, owners are tempted to break their lands up and sell them and then turn them into ranches, turn them into subdivisions, and that is highly destructive of the long term kind of carbon kind of proposition, if you will.

And so we want to try to keep them in the ranching, in the farming business, but doing it in a much better way, um, and in a way that is sustainable over a long period of time by providing cash [00:10:30] flow.

Crystal: And can individuals buy these carbon credits, or is it only for businesses?

Jim: Actually, anyone could buy the carbon credits right now, businesses are beginning to, but I can foresee in 10 or 15, 20 years that individuals will be buying them as well. I think we’ll all become much more concerned about our carbon footprint in the future as, uh, frankly, our climate problems become more and more severe, and they will.

Crystal: Yes. Is this the same as a carbon offset?

Jim: Yeah, the carbon offset is a carbon credit. And it depends on how it’s supplied. And some, some companies are even talking about becoming carbon negative where they pull more carbon dioxide out of the [00:11:15] atmosphere than they put into it. And that’s where I think we’re headed as a society.

Probably will take us 15, 20 years. Hundred years to get there, but I have no doubt that we are starting to see a transition to a totally different type of economy than we’ve had in the past.

Crystal: if I were to buy a credit or if a business were to buy a credit, am I buying a piece of land that will not be developed or farmed?

How does the land increase its carbon intake?

Jim: Well, at least, let’s say we start with a piece of farmland, uh, and we turn it into a prairie. And every time you plow a piece of land, you’re bringing oxygen into the soil, and you’re releasing carbon dioxide from the soil. So we want to eliminate plowing. So, no till agriculture, put planting cover crops.

In the case of, uh, Of [00:12:00] native pastures and prairies. No overgrazing, uh, overgrazing, uh, will basically deplete the carbon in the soil. So there are ways that we can go about this, that will maintain, uh, carbon and increase it over time. And we’re learning more all the time about this. Uh, we’re finding out during these drought conditions, uh, ranchers in New Mexico that, uh, practiced, um, a better water management.

maintain carbon, whereas others lost carbon. So the relationship between water, between the vegetative cover and the overall, um, carbon sequestration that occurs, the carbon kind of, uh, draw down, uh, you can influence this by the way that you manage the land. There are ways that [00:12:45] you can graze cattle that are very beneficial to carbon.

Uh, what are, what’s called mob grazing or regenerative grazing, where you Basically, uh, replicate the action of the buffalo, and rather than overgrazing, you kind of graze through, but maybe take about 50 percent of the cover, and then move the herd on. there’s urine, there’s defecation that has occurred, that’s natural fertilizer, and uh, the grass seems to flourish under those systems, the ecology seems to, uh, flourish.

Uh, come alive and they’re basically it’s in sync. So a lot of this is trying to understand the rhythms of nature, the rhythms of the natural carbon cycle, and frankly, bring our human [00:13:30] economy into conformity with the natural economy, which is the circular economy.

Crystal: We just have to clear a few hurdles first.

Jim: You know, this whole journey on nature based, um, Kind of thinking and trying to bring, uh, Really very serious manufacturing, uh, petrochemical companies to a nature of natural way of thinking, um, was talking to a group, um, at a major, uh, oil company, and I was talking about carbon dioxide and the prairies with what we were talking about and about, you know, the drawdown of carbon dioxide and how the plants would take the carbon dioxide and put it down into the root system.

And I noticed one man was Brow was kind of scrunched [00:14:15] up and he was, you know, really concentrating hard trying to get it and finally kind of, you know, kind of gingerly raised his hand and I said, Yes, sir. He said, How big does my pipeline have to be to get the carbon dioxide to your field? I’m sitting there going, Oh, no, no, no.

And, you know, I just realized what a disconnect. The conversation was where, you know, I mean, we’re talking about taking it out of the atmosphere. You put carbon dioxide in in China and it basically mixes in the atmosphere. And so it’s all one mixed atmosphere up there of carbon dioxide. But I just realized how much work I had to do to really begin to explain these concepts to help people that are trying to [00:15:00] understand.

I mean, this man wasn’t trying to screw me around or anything. He was trying to understand. It’s just, we were totally disconnected on our, And that was to me was a very kind of illuminating moment of realizing that I’m talking to people that are used to technology. They’re used to, uh, compressors and they’re used to engines and they’re used to pumping things and moving things.

And, I, you know, I’m talking about something very different and it’s on me to learn how to talk so they can appreciate that this is an opportunity they should participate in.

Crystal: I feel like, too, that’s, that knowledge is, is Maybe middle school science, and I feel like science is being [00:15:45] attacked so much these days And there’s not as much of a value placed on it, but that will take us in a whole other well I will action,

Jim: but I think you’re absolutely right, but I think there’s also like said a distrust of nature as a as a Ally in solving a problem nature.

Like I said, like nature is often been more linked to causing problems for companies than being part of a solution. And, and a lot of that is, I think, I think the environmental community hadn’t done itself any favors in that regard, because I think there’s so much we can do as environmentalists to bridge the conversation.

We send, we tend to be more divisive than bridging, and I’m trying to work on the bridging side, so.

Crystal: Hmm. [00:16:30] That’s a really interesting point. Back to credits. B Carbon utilizes markets. How so?

Jim: Markets are at the core of carbon trading and carbon offset. So, the idea, first of all, is that someone gets paid, a landowner gets paid, for, uh, Putting carbon in the soil and proving that they’ve done that.

And if the value is created of that, if some, uh, corporation pays for that storage, and basically claims if, well, that their carbon dioxide is stored in this location for this year, uh, that dollar payment is in fact the market That I’m talking about. We believe over time that the [00:17:15] value of this carbon storage will increase and.

As a, we have all sorts of, I’ve never seen a time period like what we’re going through right now. Every industry, particularly on the Texas coast, is trying to figure out what to do about carbon. They’re all challenged like they’ve never been challenged before. And while many are very, I think, skeptical or critical, Uh, on the coast, we can see that they are doing things different, trying to find solutions, but most of them are technological, uh, various ways of capturing carbon, going to hydrogen, uh, there’s even some small nuclear plants that are proposed on the Texas coast, as well as wind and solar.

But, uh, Nature will fit into this program as well, and, but we’ve got to pay for it. If [00:18:00] we don’t put a value on nature, um, I mean, unfortunately, we humans, frankly, don’t value something often if we don’t pay for it. And so we need to begin to pay for nature, in my opinion, and I think, you know, that’s a part of this whole process, and so when I talk about markets, it’s what I’m talking about.

Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, carbon Carbon capture, the technology of carbon capture is, is super expensive in and of itself. Can we use those funds instead to go to these nature based solutions that have so many other Benefits like for biodiversity and water sequestration, et cetera, et cetera.

Jim: Well, that’s what, that’s our goal.

That’s my, uh, yeah. That’s where we’re trying to go with this, but you know, it’s [00:18:45] funny, nature is, uh, I don’t think, uh, companies have traditionally thought of nature as their friend. Uh, they’re almost biophobic, uh, in the sense that, I mean, endangered species have always been a, been a hurdle, uh, wetlands.

You have to get permits. And nature has never been thought of as a business ally. And I think part of the, what we’re working on with this market that we’re talking about is trying to get nature on an equal footing, if you will, with other forms of technology. I mean, if I had, if I had, uh, invented photosynthesis and patented it, it would be much easier to talk about it.

But it’s, on the one hand, it’s free. And, but we [00:19:30] need to turn it into a commodity, and particularly in the United States where we have private land ownership. Private landowners need to profit, and frankly, the carbon sequestration in nature is much cheaper than the technology, and like you say, it has fabulous co benefits.

We are working at B Carbon on a biodiversity kind of, both as a co benefit, we’ve got an ocelot program in South Texas, we’ve got a hooping crane program on the coast.

Crystal: I was just going to say, I, I, Yeah,

Jim: and we can basically protect those species by protecting their habitat and at the same time get carbon credits for sequestering carbon in those habitats.

Coastal marshes are among the best carbon sequesters [00:20:15] in the planet, uh, and we’re going to be in danger of losing those marshes to sea level rise and we think we can protect them with living shorelines and can keep them in operation. For decades longer than would be the case without protection. And that takes carbon out of the, out of the, uh, atmosphere and also provides habitat

Crystal: who would pay to establish those living shorelines to then be able to sequester the carbon

Jim: afterwards.

Well, again, uh, we’re talking about creating markets here, um, project developers, uh, people with capital that are looking to frankly, make money. would build these living shorelines. Um, they may cost a million to 2 million a [00:21:00] mile. They will protect wetlands behind them for we, you know, we feel pretty comfortable with the 50 year projection.

And as long as the breakwater is maintained, and there’s carbon that’s stored in the marsh already, and then if we protect the marsh, uh, and, uh, give it a chance to keep up with sea level rise, because the breakwater will also kind of make more sediment settle in the marsh. Over time, we can continue to sequester carbon.

Whoever builds that breakwater would work with the landowner and get carbon rights. We would issue carbon credits, they would sell those credits, and then that would pay for the breakwater. Uh, we wrote a paper, uh, about building a thousand miles of living shoreline on the Texas coast, and I [00:21:45] had a man call me up and said, Look, I got 500 million dollars I’d like to put into the coast if I can get a return on that investment.

Um, so there are, there are people with capital out there that are interested in these projects, but if no one will buy the credits, then they can’t get a return on their investment. So we are basically are trying to set up a market system, if you will, that is about rewarding nature for its role in the carbon cycle and basically trying to bring nature and the human economy.

Into sync. And if we could ever do that, I think we will have achieved something really positive for the future.

Crystal: I agree. Can you speak to the differentiation between the voluntary market and the [00:22:30] regulated market? Sure. And how are carbon credits or slash offsetting regarded in each?

Jim: There is a regulated market in California.

And in some of the, I think European or in some of the nations in the EU, uh, the regulated market is actually like normal environmental regulation. I mean, I’m an environmental attorney. I’ve been practicing for a long time. Uh, environmental regulation is a law. There are rules, uh, you have to perhaps get permits, uh, but it’s all administered by state agency.

Very kind of both rigid, but also very clear as to what the rules are. The voluntary market is very different. Right now, uh, most of the carbon [00:23:15] market is in the voluntary market and not in the regulatory market. Uh, at least in part because we’ve never been able to agree on a climate policy, uh, certainly within the United States.

Um, don’t see Congress, uh, Frankly, doing anything anytime soon. So, you know, unfortunately, we’re at that situation. And the voluntary market is a bit chaotic. It’s been described as the Wild West. Because there, frankly, are no rules per se. There are kind of guidance documents that come out of the United Nations.

There are guidance documents that come out of, um, various groups that are kind of set themselves up as international registries. Um, B carbon is probably not in accord with [00:24:00] some of these simply because we’re focused more on the private landowner and trying to increase scale. And if we don’t get scale, I don’t think this is going to work.

And a lot of the, um, at least the structures right now that are popular, I think do not offer access to scale. Uh, ultimately we’ve got to be talking about. Not millions, but hundreds of millions, possibly billions of acres of land being moved into the carbon world. Coming into service, if you will, of this whole carbon economy of the future.

I mean, that’s huge scale. I mean, we’re talking about something, I mean, I mean, right now B Carbon is a baby, you know, we’re just beginning, but the scope [00:24:45] of what’s in front of us is huge, and trying to stimulate that, try to figure out how to make it happen, what’s right. I mean, one of the things I just learned, for example, of Southern Pine Forest pretty much stopped sequestering, uh, carbon after 20 years.

3035 years. So it makes sense, frankly, to cut it, turn it into wood products, replant and restore, if you will, the forest and put it into a essentially a circular economy where it grows, it produces, it’s gone through its life of producing carbon, and we cut it and then replant it, follow the wood through the sawmill, subtract off the wood that is lost.

And you’ve [00:25:30] got wood that’s going into a home for storage for 50, 100 years. So, that’s circular economy. That is circularity in how we think about our economic system, and it fits totally with the ecological system. That is something that we don’t have much of in our economy these days, and so a lot of what we’re doing is trying to find those opportunities, and Enforcing and reinforcing those in a market structure in the voluntary market.

Uh, the beauty of the voluntary market is it allows for creativity and right now we need creativity. We’re at a transition period that is as interesting as any time period I’ve ever seen since really, I started being [00:26:15] a professional in the late sixties and early seventies. This, uh, this. Transition we’re in has opened up so many opportunities and nature is and should be at the center of it.

Crystal: One of the critiques though about these carbon offsets and carbon markets is that there’s a lot of greenwashing going on. How are they doing greenwashing and how do you avoid it?

Jim: Well, I mean, greenwashing is a very kind of a one hand, very tricky subject. Um, on one level, someone can say they’re doing something and thinking something and adopting principles.

And if they don’t put any money behind it, that’s a form of greenwashing. So if you look at [00:27:00] corporate websites, I mean, they’re amazing these days with what they are talking about. I mean, compared to 50 years ago, it’s a whole different world out there. Are they serious about it, though, is the question. And then, is what they’re participating in part of a long term solution?

Does it really help in the long term? And I think that’s a little, a little harder question. Uh, there are those that think we should only be allowing carbon credits for activities that hadn’t occurred previously. Um, On the Texas coast, we have a lot of good stewards that are doing a lot of good things for their land.

Uh, They’re pulling carbon down every year, uh, out of the atmosphere. CO2 goes into [00:27:45] their soil. Uh, we don’t think they should be prohibited from participating. Um, but I think we ought to be clear about that we are putting together a system that is essentially rewarding the removal of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, tying it into the natural cycle.

Now, if a company is honest about that, And it’s very clear about what they’re doing. I don’t think it’s greenwashing. Um, now, not everyone agrees that carbon offsets are a good thing. There are those that think that carbon offsets should be prohibited. Uh, it’s a legitimate point of view. I disagree with it, but I think we need to argue through all of these issues, but it doesn’t mean it’s greenwashing just because someone takes a different point of view [00:28:30] than you do.

I think the greenwashing is the material misrepresentation of how your Using ecology, if you will, in your processes, and how you’re going about a long term pattern of reduction. As long as companies are trying to avoid emissions to begin with, and reduce and become more efficient wherever they can, there’s going to be Frankly, gaps that they may not be able to fill, uh, at least not in the short term.

Carbon credits are a wonderful way of doing it, and it would, it basically reinforces the carbon cycle, that natural cycle I keep talking about. So again, if it’s in a context that is part of a long term plan of [00:29:15] reduction and transition, I don’t think of that as greenwashing at all, but it has to do with the disclosure, it has to do with clarity, and it has to do, ultimately, with honesty.

Crystal: So in, in just getting a clearer idea of how these credits work, if, if someone were to buy a credit, are they, are they buying a piece of land? So say, like, okay, this plot of land is mine, and Nobody else is going to buy that plot of land, and whatever gets sequestered here, that’s my credit?

Jim: No, you’re not buying the land.

The land remains with the landowner.

Crystal: Right, but, theoretically.

Jim: But what you’re buying is the [00:30:00] product that is deposited in the land, or in the tree. You’re buying the carbon storage that has occurred. So it’s kind of like potatoes. Except with potatoes, you dig them out of the ground, and you get them, and you get to take them.

Well, with carbon, you want it to stay in the ground. You want it to stay in the tree. So we certify that the carbon has actually increased, and we basically give a credit for that increase. And what you buy is our, uh piece of paper, if you will, or, you know, electronic data set that says you have the right, if you will, to X tons of carbon dioxide deposited on farmer Jones’s [00:30:45] property or miss Jones’s property.

Uh, and we will have a blockchain. You can go to, you can get all of the information about the accounting of the credit. You can get all of the information about the land upon which it’s stored. We are in the process of currently getting digital telemetry. That will allow each year to update in the, uh, Blockchain database.

What’s going on on the property? Are the trees still there? I mean, you bought a carbon credit. Is it still in the ground? Is it, is the ground plowed? Well, it shouldn’t be. If it is plowed, then that’s a violation and we would have to go out and enforce. And. We have contracts that allow us to [00:31:30] enforce conditions about keeping the land in certain conditions.

And then we’ll be doing biological monitoring, um, what are called digital monitoring, reporting, and verification. And we’ll be able to give almost real time updates on what the status is of this property you have now invested in, if you will. You have purchased that carbon and you have an interest in seeing it stay.

And, uh, we’ll have an ability to give you comfort about that, while at the same time making sure that somebody does, that the same carbon isn’t sold two or three or four times.

Crystal: I was just going to ask you, like, is there a limit?

Jim: No, no, it’s a huge issue. Yeah. I don’t understand. Well, you can. Someone could buy and invest in a carbon credit and then hold it for five years and hope the [00:32:15] price went up and then sell it.

Uh, so there will, I mean, there will be speculators in this market, but mainly we are working with companies that just want to buy a credit and then what’s called retire it. And basically you have balance sheets, and these balance sheets show how much carbon you’ve emitted. How much you’ve reduced, and this would go on the reduction side.

Now there’s also something that’s happening that’s fascinating. Is that we’re starting to see carbon credits applied to products in the supply chain. And you’re starting to get carbon intensity ratings on products. And we’re seeing, for example, um, uh, tags on, uh, calves. And it would attach a [00:33:00] carbon credit to a cow’s, a calf’s tag, and then you can follow it through the feedlot and into the, uh, If you will, the meat processing.

You can do the same thing with grain. You can do the same thing with any number of these products. And basically, you’re applying the carbon that’s been put into the soil and growing the product into the supply chain. So the buyer is buying a much less carbon intensive product. You can use less nitrogen fertilizer and not have N2O emissions.

You can change the way you water your rice crop and you have fewer methane emissions. This is the economy we want to see in the future. We are basically trying to set up an economic structure that [00:33:45] rewards these types of decisions. I mean, we’re talking with people that are talking about product substitution, where a highly intensive hydrocarbon releasing, CO2 releasing product is, um, replaced by a product made from waste material.

That is biodegradable, whereas the other product, uh, would not be biodegradable. And there’s a huge difference in the carbon footprint of these two products. And that should be reflected in the economic system. And that carbon intensity might allow for a much higher price if the carbon intensity is low.

So what we’re trying to do is send economic signals. [00:34:30] about the better products, the products that will take us to a better future. And the carbon credit market is part of the early evolution of that. I’m not sure that in 10 or 20 years, we’ll have the same structure as we have today. I mean, this is, we’re just getting started.

We’re just beginning to experiment with these ideas and that’s one of the most exciting things I’ve been involved in in my career. And can it be abused? Absolutely, it can be. You know, I’m sure it will probably get regulated at some point, although I hope it’s not too quick. But just because right now there’s.

Really creativity in this market and [00:35:15] it’s going to lead to some very, very good things.

Crystal: Back to the blockchain thing real quick. Blockchain takes a tremendous amount of energy to run the computer systems. How is that offsetting or how would you offset that?

Jim: The blockchain we’re talking about is a very different blockchain than what is involved with the, um, essentially the, um, uh, market on the, um, digital, um, uh, monetary system.

Is very different. And what we’re talking about is minuscule from an energy standpoint, because it’s simply an accounting system. We’re not generating those, those prime numbers or those numbers that are not being, they’re not [00:36:00] otherwise out there in the marketplace. And I have been assured by people much smarter than myself that our use of the blockchain is a minimal energy requirement compared to what they’re doing with those blockchains.

Big server stations that are, um, eating up, frankly, 25 percent of our grid. Uh, that’s not us. Uh, but again, I can’t explain in great detail about that, but it is, I think, um, uh, literally we’re an accounting issue as opposed to a computational issue. It’s big, big difference. Ours is simple.

Crystal: Thank you for that.

As a consumer. Is there a way that I can best offset, for example, the flight that I took to get here?

Jim: Well, [00:36:45] yes, there, I mean, on one hand, I think some of the, um, airlines have offered that you can add, uh, payment when you buy your ticket. Uh, I think there’s been a little dispute over some of those. Yeah. Um, and I think at least one airline’s got sued over their representations.

Crystal: Which is what the greenwashing question was kind of.

Jim: Absolutely, that’s where the greenwashing comes up. And, you know, what we offer, there’s a group called Texas Coastal Exchange, for example, that allows you to, um, purchase carbon, um, credits or basically make a donation and TCS will make a grant to landowners to basically just secure carbon in place.

Uh, it’s a type of carbon credit, but I would imagine Once we start seeing these [00:37:30] credits come onto the market, there will be many opportunities for individuals to go out and actually purchase 10 tons, five tons of credits through basically a website. Uh, it’s, you know, I can see that happening, just not that many carbon credits on the market yet.

And it’s, it’s hard for, um, someone to invest millions of dollars developing carbon credits on the hope that consumers will buy. Because that, that’s gonna be a slower process, I think, frankly. That’s a small change. Well, well, it’s not only, it’s a huge change if, if, you know, a hundred million of us did it.

But the chances of a hundred million of us doing it anytime soon probably isn’t that, that, that high. I mean, I offset my carbon footprint. But, [00:38:15] how? Basically, I make a donation to Texas Coastal Exchange and they secure areas that are basically being saved by nonprofits. They also pay individual landowners to set their land aside for Uh, so those types of things are possible, uh, but it’s not very, they’re not much of that yet.

There will be in 10 years. I think also you’ll be able to probably scan a code in the store and give you the carbon intensity of every product that you buy. And that’s coming. This is what I’m talking about, the carbon intensity and why, you think about, um, organic food, uh, and when organic food first hit the market, uh, it cost a bit more, uh, but there were soon some very devoted followers of organic food.

I [00:39:00] think you’ll see the same thing with carbon footprint and carbon intensity.

Crystal: Is there anything that you can recommend to the listener to the regular? person, individual that they can do to help with this issue.

Jim: Well, I think, I think it’s, it’s as simple almost as loving a tree. It’s as simple as going out into your garden and just marveling over the growth of a plant because that’s the carbon cycle at work.

And you have a small plant and you watch it grow. Well, that’s. Photosynthesis taking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. And I think if we begin to link [00:39:45] ourselves, uh, spiritually, mentally, with nature, uh, that’s what so much of this is about. Uh, I think in our last hundred years we’ve gone further and further away from nature, and this is about really returning to nature and putting nature at the center of our thinking about carbon, about economy.

And about us as individuals, um, nature has an important role here, and I think we forget that at our peril, um, you know, the biggest problem here is that you don’t see nature at the center of our discussions on climate. Uh, I would dare say that very seldom is nature and climate mentioned together. We talk about climate and reductions and all [00:40:30] of these things.

So it’s really about nature. And so I encourage everyone out there to just think about it. Think about nature, you know, in a economic engine sense in the marvel of photosynthesis and what bringing carbon dioxide down was, and then ultimately I think you’ll have a chance to contribute, if you will, to offsetting your footprint by supporting nature.

Crystal: Thank you so much, Jim. This was super informative. I’m, I learned so much in the short period of time. Thank you for all that you’re doing. You’re making a difference. I mean,

Jim: it’s really nice for you to ask us, you know, to come here and talk with you. Much appreciated.

Crystal: [00:41:15] Nature based carbon sequestration helps to bridge the gap between economic incentives and ecological balance. It’s this marriage of the two that can provide even more benefits than just carbon reduction, such as resiliency against disease and disasters through a healthier ecosystem, greater biodiversity, water conservation, and sustainable income.

As Jim shared, each of us plays a role in this process. Whether it’s supporting businesses that invest in sustainable practices, making conscious choices to offset our own emissions, or simply engaging with nature in our everyday lives, nature based carbon isn’t just a distant, large scale solution. It’s something [00:42:00] connected to the land, communities, and ecosystems around us.

So next time you step outside, take a moment to appreciate that every tree, every prairie, and even the soil underfoot can play a part in our climate solution, shaping a more sustainable, nature focused economy.

Don’t forget to go to forcesfornature. com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at Becoming Forces for Nature, and let me know what actions you have been [00:42:45] taking.

Adopting just one habit could be a game changer, because imagine if a million people also adopted that. What difference for the world are you going to make today?