[00:00:00] Crystal: I’m Crystal DiMiceli, and welcome to the Forces for Nature show.

Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you, as just one person, can’t really make a difference? Forces for Nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview somebody who is doing great things for animals and the environment. We talk [00:00:25] about the challenge they’re addressing, the solution they have found, what keeps them going, and And we’ll leave you with practical action tips so that you too can become a force for nature.

Today’s guest is Laura Siderly, a climate reporter that I’ve had the pleasure of working with over the last six months. She has helped with my content creation, research, and outreach, but I wanted to take the opportunity to highlight [00:00:50] some of the stories that she has covered in her day job, especially because climate reporters have a bad rap.

for being alarmist, but she often writes hopeful stories. And you know me, I’m all about that. So let’s dive in to some good news.[00:01:15]

Laura, thank you so much for joining me on Forces for Nature. It’s so great to have you.

[00:01:20] Laura: Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here with you, Crystal.

[00:01:24] Crystal: It has been a pleasure working with you over these last several months. And I wanted to take this opportunity to share the work that you have been doing because you’re a really talented environmental journalist and you’ve been reporting on some really great [00:01:40] stories that I think would be interesting for the listener.

And I wanted to talk about a few of them today with you.

[00:01:48] Laura: Wonderful. I’m happy to expand on them with you.

[00:01:52] Crystal: Awesome. So the first one, which really aligns with a lot of what I’ve been talking about this season is about climate education. And as many of us know, New Jersey has become the first [00:02:05] state to mandate climate change lessons in their curriculum, but there’s a desire for it throughout the U S and you did a story about upstate New York.

So let’s get into that first Introduce us to that story.

[00:02:18] Laura: Yeah, absolutely. So, like you said, it was June 2020 when New Jersey introduced climate change education and shortly after in New York in January [00:02:30] 2023, assembly woman, Linda Rosenthal from Manhattan. Proposed a similar legislation, um, that would be mandated through New York state science curriculum as well as social studies and sometimes extracurricular liberal arts programs as well.

So it would touch on all different age levels K through 12, and it would discuss climate related [00:02:55] issues working through eco anxiety. That sort of thing. So, since that proposition in 2023, the legislation has sat with the planning committee and even after Governor Kathy Hogle’s recent fiscal year 2025 firmed up, there’s still not been enough.

Or any financial allocations towards the new program. [00:03:20] So it’s it’s at a standstill through this upcoming year as well. However, what’s interesting is I attended a climate summit in central New York, and that is something that both these programs that work with counties throughout New York and public school districts are doing to kind of sneak in.

climate education. And there is a dire [00:03:45] need, which well, as a reporter, I value who I speak with, who is most subject to the conditions at hand. And this was an interesting story because we’re speaking about children and it’s not always easy. easy to get their perspective in an unbiased way because when there are school surveys conducted by teachers or at school, students are pressured to [00:04:10] respond in a certain way.

So getting to speak with them at this climate summit and actually ask them if they feel there’s a need to learn more about these topics, it was an unanimous yes. And That was very powerful. I’d be happy to dive in deeper with you. Yeah. But that’s the introduction to this story was finding a way to target the audience and get their perspective [00:04:35] and see why it’s so important to fill this gap.

[00:04:38] Crystal: In your experience, you found these students want to learn about climate change. Do you know what the statistics are in general about students wanting to learn about it?

[00:04:48] Laura: Yeah, definitely. So, To preface this, I kind of answered this already differently when I was going through it, but this is one of the interesting scenarios, like I was saying, where anecdotal data [00:05:00] is almost more impactful than the statistics, um, because we can’t get those unbiased survey,

[00:05:05] Crystal: surveys

[00:05:06] Laura: conducted from students.

Oh, so that’s what you meant.

[00:05:07] Crystal: Okay.

[00:05:08] Laura: Yes, absolutely. So when I talk about their craving, that was more through asking them questions about where they facilitate these conversations outside of school or in school. Their craving? And they, yes, their desire to [00:05:25] talk through these issues with elders. Okay. And ease their anxiety surrounding the changes that they’re seeing in their built environment.

And through all eight that I spoke with. They did not, only two could point to curriculum in earth science classes where these topics were brought up, and the other six, [00:05:50] Could not point to a time besides kindergarten planting trees on Earth Day in school or even outside of school, which that goes outside of the breadth of our conversation, you know, how do families conduct these conversations, but looking at schools, there is definitely a gap.

[00:06:08] Crystal: You said the legislation has been at a standstill. Is it because there’s a lot of pushback or do [00:06:15] you know the reason why?

[00:06:16] Laura: So in speaking with administrators and asking them whether or not they feel there’s a gap, the answer was not opposition per se, air quotes opposition. It was more arguably my opinion and ignorance to the fact there was a need.

Many teachers felt that New York state science Standards already touched on these topics [00:06:40] adequately and that students that were leaving high school after their K through 12 education were well vetted in these topics. But the disparity came through when I actually spoke with the students who were saying offhand, they couldn’t point to any of these interesting conversations with educators.

So

[00:07:02] Crystal: yeah, that’s really interesting. [00:07:05] Okay. I’d have to like personally on the side do a deeper dive into what the standards say in New York that teachers are covering and then out of my own curiosity feel where that disconnect is or find where that disconnect is.

[00:07:21] Laura: Yeah. And I can send you also, I have a teacher got back to me in a written response for this article and she sent the actual science standards [00:07:30] highlighting where she feels they address the topic.

So I will send that to you. So you have all that information.

[00:07:36] Crystal: Okay. Excellent. And if anybody listening has the same curiosity, reach out to me and I can then forward it along if that’s okay. Laura? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right. Cool. All right. So interesting. And so you said this is BOCES way of kind of sneaking in this [00:07:55] climate education.

How do they get participants and has it been difficult?

[00:08:00] Laura: It is in compliance with local school districts, these climate summits, and they’re not just happening in New York. They’re also happening in Massachusetts. Um, they began in New Jersey as well. Before the state transitioned into climate change education.

So this summit was during a school [00:08:20] day. It was a field trip and it was organized and these students were taken from classes and they attended the summit from 9 to 2 PM with a break for lunch. However, their teachers were not present. So for them, it was a learning experience. And that shows that there is.

Absolutely acknowledgement from the administration that there is a gap. However, as with most [00:08:45] environmental issues, policy change is what affects a difference and the education system. So, in a way, it’s over their heads as well. So we’re dealing with a situation that’s over the heads of the students who are craving this education.

education and over at the head of administrators who have to find ways to organize sneaking in this curriculum or integrating it into their lessons [00:09:10] plans as they see freely fit.

[00:09:12] Crystal: What did the summit look like? What did the day consist of?

[00:09:16] Laura: Yeah, so it had seven seminars. They were all very different and students were given a list and they could attend freely the classes they felt.

They were most interested in, some were more hands on, actually planting trees and identifying them outdoors. And others [00:09:35] were more creative, so climate storytelling, the responsibility of writers and young writers. And others were very localized issues. So the Sequoia Creek runs through central New York and it’s prone to flooding.

And a lot of these school districts, these students are aware of that because They live in a floodplain and it’s common that their neighborhoods are often succumb to this issue. [00:10:00] Basements, you know, it’s a hassle for parents, that sort of thing. So there was a environmental engineer that came to speak to the students about why there is flooding in the area, how floodplains work and how mitigation works with natural solutions, such as creating flood banks.

And she had a diorama. So it really depended on what the student wanted to get from the experience as there [00:10:25] were multiple different options. So after there were seminars, there was a break for lunch where students were able to eat and also go to the panel room full of NYSERDA energy, clean energy representatives from New York State, native garden planters, and local climate advocates, professional advocates.

that were there to answer [00:10:50] the questions that students had, as well as offer a raffle for climate literature, again, to evoke the curiosity in young writers.

[00:11:00] Crystal: Did you feel that the summit was succeeding in its mission?

[00:11:04] Laura: I did. And I was fortunate to have spoken with the students at the end of the summit to kind of gauge their receptivity to everything taught.

And it was, Definitely [00:11:15] eminent. Three of the boys I spoke to were already looking at ways to apply the knowledge learned from the summit to their school. So they looked at a corridor of their school that wasn’t being used. You know, it was used for kickball during recess, hopscotch, that sort of thing, but they were now proposing creating flower boxes and [00:11:40] growing herbs and food and using it as a food forest, as opposed to just a cement urban space and that that also, you know, this is a bit of a tangent.

I want to make sure we keep things concise, but I think what’s so powerful about facilitating these conversations with youth is that there is that innate wonder and curiosity, and they can almost grasp [00:12:05] climate solutions. better than arguably those of us who become politically swayed in age or just swayed in mindset.

And we have our firm way of seeing these students are very open minded and they’re curious and that can go a long way for initiating change.

[00:12:22] Crystal: That’s really exciting to hear and encourages me even more to push further with climate [00:12:30] education because

[00:12:31] Laura: there’s a need for it.

[00:12:33] Crystal: There’s a need for it. And last question.

You mentioned earlier that the students didn’t feel taken care of by their leaders. One student said, quote, the people that have the ability to change things don’t seem to have the motivation. And I don’t think discussions are encouraged as much as they should be, end quote. Do you have [00:12:55] any suggestions on how we can better support our younger generations?

[00:13:00] Laura: Yeah, so that conversation was powerful because often we, we talk about wanting to progress renewably, not just for our global economy, but to create a world that can sustain the younger generation and our children. But when we ask our children, if they feel taken care [00:13:20] of by our leadership and they say no, then.

Again, there’s a disparity that we need to connect the dots on if we want to create a world for the next generation, we also need to turn attention to creating a generation that can step into that world and continue to live sustainably and thrive. Think resourcefully and they will not be able to do that unless prompted and educated on [00:13:45] how to do so.

So it, it has to be, it’s a requirement from both angles, from us as policy leaders and, uh, predecessors creating a world for our children as well as educating our children to step into and, you know, even find solutions that we couldn’t even imagine.

[00:14:04] Crystal: Okay. Well, excellent. This was a really great story [00:14:10] that is very close to my heart.

And the next story that I wanted to bring up, I feel like I’ve been talking to a lot of people about it lately. You know, people who push back on the push for electrifying things and whatnot. A lot of the time, their arguments are, well, you have to mine for all this material and it has a lot of destruction in and of itself.

And they’re right. [00:14:35] And so this story that you worked on, although it’s not about mining, it’s very similar in that it’s about another so called green, green dilemma, specifically with wind turbines. Can you expand on that?

[00:14:50] Laura: Absolutely. So when facilities are an important step toward our progress toward a more equitable planet.

[00:15:00] However, what we’re finding and what scientists are finding is that turbines are. A source for great harm with flying creatures who migrate and fly higher than lower nesting birds, such as the long eared owl who tend to stay closer to the grasslands. This includes bats, Canadian geese. Eagles many endangered [00:15:25] species.

And what’s interesting is the solution is quite simple and maintainable. It starts on a local level. So that’s the hopeful thing. I do want to clarify that the green green dilemma is not an anti wind tactic as renewable energy sourcing is needed in our progress toward a decarbonized structure. However, we [00:15:50] have to ask ourselves.

If we are truly approaching these things with the correct intent in terms of if we want to preserve our planet, then we need to preserve our biodiversity as well. And it cannot just be a focus on energy and renewable energy, but a balanced approach that entails. Uh, habitat protection as well as clean energy sourcing [00:16:15]

[00:16:15] Crystal: is the green green dilemma specifically with wind turbines because the way it’s not like a general term.

[00:16:23] Laura: It’s not a general term. It came up through bat studies, um, bat conservationists coined the term bioscience. But conservation, however, arguably, it could apply to solar energy as well. If we’re looking at a couple of the [00:16:40] citing solar on land where it requires deforestation again, it’s this juxtaposition of what do we value more at the land or our efforts?

It’s to decarbonize our energy.

[00:16:52] Crystal: Right. Right. And is it only migratory? Or like if

[00:16:56] Laura: It is. It’s only migratory because they fly higher than birds that don’t. So they’re at the heights that intercepts [00:17:05] the wind turbines. Oh,

[00:17:06] Crystal: okay. And you mentioned that the Green Green Dilemma was coined by bat conservationists or bat scientists.

And what is at stake if we lose some of these bats to these wind turbines? Because, I mean, I, I’m very fond of bats. I have, history about them. I [00:17:30] think I’ve spoken about in another episode, but anyway, um, like they really do serve a very important function. So what’s at stake?

[00:17:38] Laura: Economically, bats are very valuable to American agriculture.

They eat, crop pests. So this really helps out farmers because invasive species are put to bay due to these [00:17:55] flying creatures. It also helps us as consumers of American agriculture because it requires farmers to spray less pesticides if bats are near and already doing that work for them, so we have healthier food sources.

They also are used more often in tropical latitudes in Asia and closer to the equator. Not so much in America though. [00:18:20] Somewhat in the Southwest as pollinators, they feast on fruits like figs, durian fruits, agave, cacti, and figs are their most common food source in rainforests, uh, globally. And a lot of studies have been done that show they play a key role in forest conservation and [00:18:45] regeneration as when they snack on these figs in the sky and then drop their seeds They are actively expanding forests as trees are cut.

They do quite a bit in terms of agriculture, but arguably I would say they also have an intrinsic value. As you said, many of us don’t deem ourselves bat lovers. [00:19:10] They’re part of our normal and we would notice their absence and they connect us to the wonder of nature, which has. emotional wellbeing benefits that I would argue equate to fiscal health.

[00:19:24] Crystal: Yeah, I agree with you. So we have this dilemma where these wind turbines, which are so desperately [00:19:35] needed for us to transition, or I’d rather say evolve into a clean energy future, but also then how dangerous they can be for biodiversity. How can we have both? What is a solution that you discovered?

[00:19:54] Laura: Yeah.

So bioscience scientists have been looking into this for quite some [00:20:00] time and they found that the cut in speed, which is when the turbines fall typically from six to nine miles per hour. If it is. Cut 50 percent only during key migratory patterns. So in New York state, this would be nighttime from October through November.

Then nearly all of the bat mortalities would be [00:20:25] diminished. And in terms of energy loss, it would only yield a one to 4 percent decrease and energy loss during again, those eight weeks. So to you and I, it seems like an easy solution. However. Um, it’s larger than that because renewable companies don’t have the market incentive to make these changes on their own.

It wouldn’t be saving or making them more [00:20:50] money. So it’s our responsibility to create a economy that incentivizes those sustainable choices for developers. And we can do that by just being engaged with our local governments and our town boards and creating moratoriums where. When future developers come in, we have curtailment requirements.

So we say [00:21:15] as a town, if you’re going to produce energy on our acres using wind turbines, this needs to be curtailed. The cut in speed during key migratory patterns because of our wildlife preservation. And once that’s in place, it has to be obeyed. So getting involved with local town boards and passing that legislation is an easy solution.

It’s [00:21:40] been done before in Alameda County, California, and quite successful. So from that point on, they have not had any bat mortalities recorded from wind turbines, just because of that small change.

[00:21:52] Crystal: Wow. And it’s only a small portion of the year at night.

[00:21:58] Laura: At nighttime, because that’s when these flying creatures are on their way to warmer weather in the [00:22:05] Northeast at least.

And

[00:22:08] Crystal: I, well, so this is, I don’t know if you know about this, but like, what about, what about bird migration, which happens during the day? Did they talk about that at all?

[00:22:18] Laura: Again, this solution was proposed by bat scientists, so they’re not necessarily looking at all of the species, though this is something that a lot of locals are concerned about, [00:22:30] especially as I mentioned, eagles already endangered in New York and like you said, migrating during the day.

How can we protect them? And again, that’s why this is a green, green dilemma because it comes back to our priorities Um, how can we do progress in a way that is the least harmful for these species we care about?

[00:22:51] Crystal: And if at night it only decreases the amount of [00:22:55] energy by one to four percent, you said, then I imagine like maybe it’s eight to ten percent at most if you did the whole day with bird migration included.

And it might be different times of the year. Yeah. I mean, Like you said, it’s an easy thing for us to think should be implemented. I can see the pushback, but to me it doesn’t, yeah, it [00:23:20] doesn’t seem like that hard of a choice

[00:23:23] Laura: in

[00:23:23] Crystal: my biased opinion. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:25] Laura: No, I, I agree with you. And I think that what is so hopeful about this story is that it gives people A feeling of control, so there is this dilemma they care so deeply about, but they can get involved and actually make a change, which is.

the climate optimism perspective of this news [00:23:45] article, which we need to see more of.

[00:23:47] Crystal: Absolutely. So last but not least, I want to talk about this final article that you recently did about bees, which I totally love and appreciate and want more of. So tell me about this story.

[00:24:03] Laura: I’m, as I’m looking at the calendar, May 21st, happy belated world bee day.

[00:24:10] There has been a big focus on the bumblebee population decline. However, what’s interesting is now the concentration has expanded to native bee populations. And again, this is a hopeful story because it. Calls for local engagement and local engagement can really make an impact on our pollinator species.

So [00:24:35] bees are super important because similar to bats, they have a large economic impact that equates to tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars each year in the U S alone. Billions? One, two. Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. And one of every three mouthfuls we take depends on bee pollination. As you mentioned in one of your graphics on social media, [00:25:00] coffee, chocolate, all the things we love rely on our bees.

[00:25:04] Crystal: It’s very important.

[00:25:07] Laura: And we’re seeing this decline and, uh, Farmers are responding by shipping in bee colonies, and it’s a very costly endeavor. So without them, of course, we’re losing food diversity and healthy American [00:25:25] agriculture, but we’re also compensating for their decline by spending even more money trying to ship them in from elsewhere.

Typically, these semi trucks carry 400 colonies that are 200 each. each. So for a 25 acre farm per se, that’s 80 grand to ship in bees because they’re not where they used to be and they’re not in the surplus that they used to be. So [00:25:50] it’s a very costly issue for us. Yes.

[00:25:55] Crystal: Yeah. Okay. And for World Bee Day, which was May 20th, I talked about ways that we could help pollinators in my community email and then in social media posts.

What’s another way that we can help besides what I’ve talked about before?

[00:26:11] Laura: So you’d mentioned no mow may to slow mow [00:26:15] may, which is a great suggestion. I would argue that the most beneficial way to protect our pollinators is planting native gardens in our backyards, on our patios. Wherever we are, it’s a very easy, affordable option.

For most homeowners and renters. So what it entails is an intentionality. [00:26:40] So picking up plants like white clover, creeping time that attract different types of bees so that we have bee diversity in our yards. We’re not just tending to the bumblebees and we can plant in a way that initiates. It’s bloom turnover.

The growth season in New York is from May through October for many [00:27:05] blooming flowers. And when planted next to each other, in sequential order, when one plant stops blooming, the nearby plant will begin. And this allows. our pollinators to have a sustained food source. So they’re not just being spoiled in May when we choose to stop mowing our lawn.

Instead, they can be serviced throughout the entire season. And, um, all [00:27:30] different types of these pollinators can be serviced as well.

[00:27:33] Crystal: In this article though, you mentioned a really novel way that we can help our pollinators that I hadn’t heard of or knew about before. What was that?

[00:27:42] Laura: Yes, so it’s a super easy Call to action.

All you need is a smartphone and to download the iNaturalist app. This is used by billions of mobile [00:27:55] users across the state in different regions and essentially whenever you’re out on a walk or gardening in your backyard and you see a bee, just take out your phone and snap a photo. The app will identify the type of bee and it will also input the data into a region wide database.

So you can keep track of how many bees are in your area and actually record a decline as opposed to just noticing an anecdotal [00:28:20] decline, as well as track enhanced bee diversity. So if a community is super involved with bee lawns and planting native gardens, you can watch the progress by the amount of population that comes back to the area.

And it’s a great way to kind of gauge how you’re doing and the health of your ecosystem. It also. Allows local organizations and educational [00:28:45] programs to have data to work with when they’re creating progress plans. They have actual numbers to work with. And if you are curious as to whether or not your region has a B study, many of them do even in metro areas.

like Phoenix and Atlanta, the easiest way is to just download the iNaturalist app. If there is not a bee study in your area, it’s [00:29:10] still a great way to connect with nature, identify plants and birds, any creatures that you aren’t quite sure, you just snap a quick photo.

[00:29:19] Crystal: Yeah, so you don’t have to be a scientist and know how to do anything, like any kind of particular scientific method or testing or use any tools, you just need to take a picture.

[00:29:30] Laura: Yeah, just need to take a photo. And it turns us all into local [00:29:35] naturalists in a way we learn and our community learns. So it’s a win win. And they use

[00:29:41] Crystal: this data for actual studies.

[00:29:45] Laura: They do. Yes. So you’re creating the numbers that are used in solutions and scientific endeavors, which is great. You’re engaging with that process.

[00:29:54] Crystal: That’s so neat. Can you give me an example of, of how this has been used?

[00:29:59] Laura: [00:30:00] So in central New York, what was interesting is last summer, they actually recorded an increase in bee population, which is very helpful. And scientists at the SUNY ranger school, the school of forestry, are commonly known as ESF, which is one of the top educational institutes in the United States.

Oh, thank you. I went there. Really? I did. [00:30:25] I’m a stumpy. Well, you have a great, great alma mater. Um, but they used these statistics from the iNaturalist app in a study conducted that just goes to reiterate why slow mow may and long grass and planting native grass is effective in initiating change for the pollinator.

So that’s really neat to see that locals [00:30:50] gained the data that was used in a study at ESF. It was also picked up by Cornell, which is right down the street in Ithaca, New York. So we have some wonderful educators that are using local naturalists data

[00:31:03] Crystal: from their smartphones. That’s so cool. And we get to, to see that things might actually be better than we realized.

So that’s always helpful. Absolutely. [00:31:15] So these, these stories were all really excellent and thought provoking. I’m going to include links to them in the show notes and thank you so much for, for sharing them with us. It was so great to learn more about them.

[00:31:29] Laura: Of course. And thank you for spotlighting them. I think it’s refreshing to see, you know, as reporters, we are really trying to find ways to evoke hope and [00:31:40] optimism in our readers.

And even though the news cycle gets a bad rap, we, we are very excited. We, our eyes are attuned to the progress and sustainable solutions to create a pathway moving forward. So thank you for supporting that.

[00:31:56] Crystal: Your work is so very important. So thank you for what you’re doing. You’re making a difference.[00:32:05]

It’s reporters like Laura who we need to turn our attention to. We need to pay more attention to the good news and click less on the alarmist clickbait that’s out there. To follow up on the things that Laura was telling us about, be sure to check the show notes for links to the Youth Climate Summit Toolkit that you can use to encourage your [00:32:30] local BOCES or community college or school district to use to bring a summit to your area.

Download the iNaturalist app and start doing citizen science in your backyard today. And lastly, I just want to add that we are at a turning point right now where finally, the world is gaining momentum towards a more renewable [00:32:55] future, but it would all be for not if we destroy our biodiversity in the process.

To me, Even though bat scientists coined the phrase, the green, green dilemma, it really cuts across all sectors and initiatives in our evolution towards a cleaner future. We have to decide now what we want the future to look like. We can have clean energy and thriving [00:33:20] ecosystems. Let’s not settle for anything less.

And let’s make sure to encourage and support the positive coverage of all the issues we’re facing. Because Believe it or not, there’s so much good happening.

Don’t forget to go to forcesfornature. com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking [00:33:45] practical actions today. Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at becoming forces for nature and let me know what actions you have been taking.

Adopting just one habit can be a game changer because imagine if a million people also adopted that. What difference for the world are you going to make [00:34:10] today?